Why is an EU/European army a bad thing?

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Why is an EU/European army a bad thing?

Post by Disastrous @ Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:36 pm

This is getting a lot of press at the moment and when the horror of it was originally brought up as another reason to Brexit, I struggled to see the downsides.

Would it not be a bit better if we sort of co-operated with our closest allies and pooled our resources? I reckon Britain has to have about the best army in Europe but we'd surely appreciate a few more bodies and we would be able to show them the ropes a bit, so instead of silly European-trained soldiers, we have loads X 10 of ace UK-trained soldiers.

Also, it seems that we are already being pulled into fight in conflicts that we don't support or agree with, so changing up that side of things may potentially help?

I don't know enough about it really - I'm not much of a military buff - but I don't see why it would be so bad.

Would it be?

Why?

And if it would be good, why that too?
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Re: Why is an EU/European army a bad thing?

Post by spast1kunt @ Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:38 pm

NATO already exists and everyone who is anyone is part of NATO so what is the extra benefit?
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Re: Why is an EU/European army a bad thing?

Post by Disastrous @ Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:45 pm

spast1kunt wrote:NATO already exists and everyone who is anyone is part of NATO so what is the extra benefit?



Well, that was sort of what my thinking was - NATO kind of already is that and are we not broadly in favour of NATO? What would be so bad about 'The EU' being a member of NATO?

I get your point and that's fair enough - I really don't have a strong opinion on this but NATO already existing, or 'no obvious additional benefit' seems a weird reason to be so outraged (not you, them) about an EU army.
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Re: Why is an EU/European army a bad thing?

Post by Strawman @ Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:58 pm

The North Atlantic Treaty Organisation mainly exists to defend the members from outside forces, i.e. Russia (formerly known as USSR). An EU army would be more for attacking bad people before things got out of hand, so when things all kicked off in Bosnia back in the 90's NATO did nothing and the US later moaned that the EU countries could have waded in earlier and sorted it all out instead of waiting for the US to help out.
One of the positive effects of Brexit is that a year ago an EU armed force was a very distant prospect, now it looks like it will be created soon.
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Re: Why is an EU/European army a bad thing?

Post by Dirk @ Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:05 pm

It's not necessarily a bad thing in itself, but there are some issues

1) NATO has its own command structure. WOuld EU forces then need a separate European structure that adds money, rather than just using NATOs?
2) Some countries already use NATO as an excuse not to bother keeping decent armed forces because someone else will defend them.Would an EU army make that even worse?
3) Will leadership be based on ability, buggins turn once per country or pro rata with forces committed?
4) Will procurement be centralised? If so then national interests would be affected (French forex would never agree as their defence sector is very protected)
5) If procurement is not centralised then some of the specialist capability would be most efficently organised by one counry only (e.g. Germany provide all Airborn Early Warning aircraft). If you do that then a country that goes to fight on its own (e.g. UK in Falklands) has no capability. PLus the cost of that means some countrioes would have bugger all else.
6) If you don't have areas of national expertise, and you don't have central procurement, what the hell is the gain? We can join in a coaltion of whoever agrees whenever we want.

Its worth noting that back in the cold war there were big arguments about which sector you were in because no-one wanted to fight in the sector next to some countries I reckon a European army would be even worse
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