What are the positives of leaving Europe?

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Re: What are the positives of leaving Europe?

Post by Käsemeister @ Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:14 pm

jimbob wrote:Oh don't be so ridiculous. Charity does begin at home.My family always comes first


Sigh.
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Re: What are the positives of leaving Europe?

Post by Dirk @ Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:53 am

jimbob wrote:

Yes thats true we can check passports etc. The problem is that once someone gets in illegally it is extremely difficult to get them out again due to human rights law both UK and the EU. People are getting in in fairly large numbers illegally. I realise as well that in terms of numbers its a drop in the ocean compared to how many people we have here already and how many are entitled to come in anyway but its a matter of principle.

We should be able to throw out anyone not legally entitled to be here and we cant.


But human rights law is nothing to do with the EU either. It doesn't come from the EU. It is not implemented by the EU. So leaving the EU will have no impact on it

jimbob wrote:
For me the biggest issue is not migration or immigration albeit in my opinion it is a huge issue. My primary issue is one of self governance. Under the present situation we are slowly but surely being taken over by the Eu and our rules regulations and laws are being set by the EU. Now in some ways technically not the biggest drama however I would like to be able to get rid of any politician who behaves in a way I disagree with. Whether thats by trying to bring in a law I dislike or because I believe they are corrupt or whatever.

Name some of these regulations that the EU has enforced on us that are so horrible?

There are a huge bunch to do with CE marking. Obviously the safety of electrical goods and children's toys should be left as a free for all like in China because who needs laws on that. Unfortunately, in order to export to the EU we would still need to meet EU regulations, and if we are outside the EU then we would need to employ a foreign agent to ensure that we have met them. That will hardly help the cost of exports will it?

What other laws do you want scrapped?

I did a search and the first hit of something Farage believes should be scrapped but can't because of EU is the tampon tax. Wow
The second is discrimination laws. Do we really want to go back to a world where B&Bs can have signs saying "no blacks, no gays, no Irish"?

So what are these heinous regulations that screw up YOUR everyday life that need scrapping Jimbob?
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Re: What are the positives of leaving Europe?

Post by Deuteronomy @ Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:42 am

Dirk wrote:So what are these heinous regulations that screw up YOUR everyday life that need scrapping Jimbob?


This is an excellent question, Jimbob I'm genuinely interested to hear what you think.
Last edited by Deuteronomy on Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What are the positives of leaving Europe?

Post by thekungfury @ Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:02 am

Deuteronomy wrote:
Dirk wrote:So what are these heinous regulations that screw up YOUR everyday life that need scrapping Jimbob?


This is an excellent question, Jimbob I'm genuinely interested to hear what you think.

Keep up you two.

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Re: What are the positives of leaving Europe?

Post by Dirk @ Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:15 am

thekungfury wrote:
Deuteronomy wrote:
Dirk wrote:So what are these heinous regulations that screw up YOUR everyday life that need scrapping Jimbob?


This is an excellent question, Jimbob I'm genuinely interested to hear what you think.

Keep up you two.

ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS


Nil points
Jimbob wrote:For me the biggest issue is not migration or immigration

It is these awful regulations that stop us living our life as we want to.

Take that Tampon tax.
Telegraph wrote:The average woman therefore needs eight boxes to get her through an entire year, giving an annual spend on tampons of around £15, which is rather a lot less than the claimed £492.
That means her annual VAT bill for sanitary products would be a whopping – wait for it - 75 pence a year.

Women all over the country (and Rod) are discriminated against to the tune of 75p a year.

No wonder Farage used the example of the VAT on Tampsons in his speech decrying these evil EU laws


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-politics/11957498/The-campaign-to-end-VAT-on-tampons-is-one-of-the-silliest-the-sisterhood-has-ever-mounted.html
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Re: What are the positives of leaving Europe?

Post by thekungfury @ Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:58 am

In fairness VAT on tampons is a ridiculous situation. Leaving aside the actual monetary cost it's pretty shocking that essential Jaffa cakes attract no VAT but luxury items like tampons do.

Hang on a minute.

Are you thinking what I'm thinking?

Ladies, gather round, I have a solution.
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Re: What are the positives of leaving Europe?

Post by Rod Rammage @ Fri Mar 04, 2016 10:40 am

Piquet wrote:God, you're all being horrible! Can you please argue fairly? Jimbob has repeatedly said he has worked in government for ages and knows all their figures are made up and the real ones aren't published, so how can he possibly compete with your actual numbers?

I believe you, Jimbob Snowden.

#iamjimbob


Yes so am I.

Stop being horrible to JB everyone.

No one likes foreigners so let's stop pretending.

Of course charity begins AND ENDS at home. I am not buying trainers for ruddy gypsies!

And I can't stand tampons and want them taxed MORE. Policemen don't pay for themselves, you know. Nor do roads. Increase tax on tampons and then the police can be sponsored by lillets.
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Re: What are the positives of leaving Europe?

Post by Käsemeister @ Fri Mar 04, 2016 10:51 am

thekungfury wrote:In fairness VAT on tampons is a ridiculous situation. Leaving aside the actual monetary cost it's pretty shocking that essential Jaffa cakes attract no VAT but luxury items like tampons do.

Hang on a minute.

Are you thinking what I'm thinking?

Ladies, gather round, I have a solution.


Vomitrofl
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Re: What are the positives of leaving Europe?

Post by HappyGoLucky @ Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:22 am

Rod Rammage wrote:Stop being horrible to JB everyone.

No one likes foreigners so let's stop pretending.


But isn't JB one himself? Maybe that's why everyone is being horrible to him?



quietly hides other passport and blows dust off UK one
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Re: What are the positives of leaving Europe?

Post by HappyGoLucky @ Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:28 am

Rod Rammage wrote:But surely we can have good immigration and stop bad immigration?

Good immigration is foreigners we don't really want, because they are foreigners, but we have no choice. And bad foreigners is ISIS and sponging gypsies.


That's what the Chief Immigration Dude in Thailand wants too, he's even made it part of his manifesto. As you arrive in a Thai airport, you're greeted by signs like these.

Image

I'm not sure if you're supposed to declare which type you are or they have to guess?
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Re: What are the positives of leaving Europe?

Post by Doctor Congo @ Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:08 am

HappyGoLucky wrote:
Rod Rammage wrote:Stop being horrible to JB everyone.

No one likes foreigners so let's stop pretending.


But isn't JB one himself? Maybe that's why everyone is being horrible to him?



quietly hides other passport and blows dust off UK one


For some reason I thought he might be a saffa....

Original video page: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZjwCmJrnlY


Apart from Me. And loads of others. It's a bloody joke ok!
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Re: What are the positives of leaving Europe?

Post by Dirk @ Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:11 am

Deuteronomy wrote:
Dirk wrote:So what are these heinous regulations that screw up YOUR everyday life that need scrapping Jimbob?


This is an excellent question, Jimbob I'm genuinely interested to hear what you think.

I'd still like an answer to this (and not any consideration of Teek's suggestion thanks)
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Re: What are the positives of leaving Europe?

Post by whyohwhy @ Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:58 am

I think it's a shame that both sides seem to be intent on promoting their cause by fear.

What I'd like to see the tangible positives from staying in or leaving.

Unfortunately I think the migrant situation in other countries will be enough to scare people into a leave vote.
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Re: What are the positives of leaving Europe?

Post by Strawman @ Sat Mar 05, 2016 10:03 am

The positives on leaving are all speculative, none of the G8 wants the UK to leave (except possibly Russia) so while trying to observe the niceties of not interfering in internal politics they have warned about the negative economic impact on the global economy. So the brighter future advocated by the Brexit camp for the UK is dependent on what trade deals a separate UK could negotiate, until there has been a decisive vote to leave these are all pie in the sky and based on a panglossian nostalgia for an earlier time when the world was less connected. A lot of the world's economy is now intricately interlinked and trying to create more layers of control at a national level is hopelessly trying to swim against the tide.
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Re: What are the positives of leaving Europe?

Post by whyohwhy @ Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:58 pm

Strawman wrote:The positives on leaving are all speculative, none of the G8 wants the UK to leave (except possibly Russia) so while trying to observe the niceties of not interfering in internal politics they have warned about the negative economic impact on the global economy. So the brighter future advocated by the Brexit camp for the UK is dependent on what trade deals a separate UK could negotiate, until there has been a decisive vote to leave these are all pie in the sky and based on a panglossian nostalgia for an earlier time when the world was less connected. A lot of the world's economy is now intricately interlinked and trying to create more layers of control at a national level is hopelessly trying to swim against the tide.


So it might be better?
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Re: What are the positives of leaving Europe?

Post by Strawman @ Sat Mar 05, 2016 1:01 pm

whyohwhy wrote:So it might be better?


I see no evidence to believe it will be better and plenty to say it would be worse.
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Re: What are the positives of leaving Europe?

Post by whyohwhy @ Sat Mar 05, 2016 1:09 pm

Strawman wrote:
whyohwhy wrote:So it might be better?


I see no evidence to believe it will be better and plenty to say it would be worse.


So other than the hysteria around us being over run with migrants there is little to promote leaving

Apart from a Scottish like desire to be free from those that are perceived to control us from afar.

What is the evidence it will be worse?
Last edited by whyohwhy on Sat Mar 05, 2016 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What are the positives of leaving Europe?

Post by Strawman @ Sat Mar 05, 2016 1:26 pm

whyohwhy wrote:What is the evidence it will be worse?


Because big trade blocks like the EU (plus Switzerland and Norway) or China or the US will favour their existing agreements over new ones with the UK. There would be a amount of ill will in the EU about the UK leaving, especially if that triggered a new recession.
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Re: What are the positives of leaving Europe?

Post by whyohwhy @ Sat Mar 05, 2016 2:05 pm

Strawman wrote:
whyohwhy wrote:What is the evidence it will be worse?


Because big trade blocks like the EU (plus Switzerland and Norway) or China or the US will favour their existing agreements over new ones with the UK. There would be a amount of ill will in the EU about the UK leaving, especially if that triggered a new recession.


I can see that the rest of the EU would be pissed off with us leaving. And that they are quite capable of making us suffer, however if we are so important to the future of the EU why didn't the allow Cameron a better deal?

Is the EU not doomed anyway unless they move towards significant political and economic unity.

Isn't Greece is heading towards default again?

And the Indian market, which in manufacturing is expanding greatly isn't reliant on the EU. And China and the USA are outside of that to.

I'm assuming, possibly incorrectly that the only reason we don't currently have a separate trade deal is because the EU doesn't permit it.
Last edited by whyohwhy on Sat Mar 05, 2016 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What are the positives of leaving Europe?

Post by Strawman @ Sat Mar 05, 2016 2:20 pm

whyohwhy wrote: however if we are so important to the future of the EU why didn't the allow Cameron a better deal?

For the unity of the rest of the EU.

whyohwhy wrote:Is the EU not doomed anyway unless they move towards significant political and economic unity.

Something that is very difficult to answer definitively but generally all EU members have made great strides towards economic prosperity over the last 30 years.



whyohwhy wrote:And the Indian market, which in manufacturing is expanding greatly isn't reliant on the EU. And China and the USA are outside of that to.

China have already said they couldn't be arsed negotiating with a separate UK, they want to keep their existing trade with the EU intact. The US is in the middle of negotiating a free trade agreement between the EU and North America, they won't want to delay or jeopardise that to cut a side deal the UK, so the UK would have to wait until after that was in place. India don't know but the commonwealth countries felt slighted when the UK joined the EU in the first place making Australia look for more trading relations with Asia, the world has changed a lot since the UK was last outside the EU and I haven't seen any clamouring from commonwealth countries for the UK to leave, more a deafening silence.
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Re: What are the positives of leaving Europe?

Post by whyohwhy @ Sat Mar 05, 2016 2:38 pm

Strawman wrote:
whyohwhy wrote: however if we are so important to the future of the EU why didn't the allow Cameron a better deal?

For the unity of the rest of the EU.

whyohwhy wrote:Is the EU not doomed anyway unless they move towards significant political and economic unity.

Something that is very difficult to answer definitively but generally all EU members have made great strides towards economic prosperity over the last 30 years.



whyohwhy wrote:And the Indian market, which in manufacturing is expanding greatly isn't reliant on the EU. And China and the USA are outside of that to.

China have already said they couldn't be arsed negotiating with a separate UK, they want to keep their existing trade with the EU intact. The US is in the middle of negotiating a free trade agreement between the EU and North America, they won't want to delay or jeopardise that to cut a side deal the UK, so the UK would have to wait until after that was in place. India don't know but the commonwealth countries felt slighted when the UK joined the EU in the first place making Australia look for more trading relations with Asia, the world has changed a lot since the UK was last outside the EU and I haven't seen any clamouring from commonwealth countries for the UK to leave, more a deafening silence.


Good points.

I've got more from you than the whole of the media or either camp.

However, I still think the masses will see migrants as the major issue. What the stay campaign needs is facts as you gave above including detailed reasoning of why we will be better off in Europe.
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Re: What are the positives of leaving Europe?

Post by Strawman @ Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:02 pm

Thanks whyohwhy, there is much I think wrong with the EU but I think it could become better if the UK remains in, perhaps lobbies other members more to get the view of a looser federation promoted.
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Re: What are the positives of leaving Europe?

Post by Rod Rammage @ Mon Mar 07, 2016 2:01 pm

Strawman wrote:The positives on leaving are all speculative


As far as I can see it's all speculative, staying or leaving, except for one thing - if we leave we can stop being bossed around by the French. That much is certain. I cannot wait to tell those dirty cnuts to fcuk themselves. I'll have all the straight bananas I like and Francois Olland won't be able to touch me for it, the bald French shit!
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Re: What are the positives of leaving Europe?

Post by Turntable @ Mon Mar 07, 2016 2:09 pm

A daily mash article about all of PH

A MAN is planning to carefully assess the risks and benefits of Britain leaving the EU then just vote on the basis of not liking immigrants, he has announced.

Retired engineer Roy Hobbs intends to read up on issues like the single market and trade tariffs before imagining a horde of gypsy beggars, Eastern European criminals and crazed jihadis taking over his village.

Hobbs said: “I feel it’s my duty to understand the facts, even if my actual decision is based on a paranoid fantasy about no one speaking English and only being able to buy weird Polish sausages.

“I’m currently reading a cost-benefit analysis of EU membership in The Economist, which I will weigh up against my recurring dream where 20 Bulgarians move in next door and start making vile suggestions to my wife.

“It’s a tough call but ultimately I think I’ll be guided by my innate sense of terror and loathing towards any person whose looks or accent are noticeably different to mine.”
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Re: What are the positives of leaving Europe?

Post by Rod Rammage @ Mon Mar 07, 2016 2:24 pm

Turntable wrote:A daily mash article about all of PH

A MAN is planning to carefully assess the risks and benefits of Britain leaving the EU then just vote on the basis of not liking immigrants, he has announced.

Retired engineer Roy Hobbs intends to read up on issues like the single market and trade tariffs before imagining a horde of gypsy beggars, Eastern European criminals and crazed jihadis taking over his village.

Hobbs said: “I feel it’s my duty to understand the facts, even if my actual decision is based on a paranoid fantasy about no one speaking English and only being able to buy weird Polish sausages.

“I’m currently reading a cost-benefit analysis of EU membership in The Economist, which I will weigh up against my recurring dream where 20 Bulgarians move in next door and start making vile suggestions to my wife.

“It’s a tough call but ultimately I think I’ll be guided by my innate sense of terror and loathing towards any person whose looks or accent are noticeably different to mine.”


Laugh. It's so true.
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Re: What are the positives of leaving Europe?

Post by tanglerat @ Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:24 pm

We're missing the point here, in our haste to pick a fight with JimBob et al.

Point being, TT's asked a pretty cunning Q: "What are the positives of leaving Europe?"

This isn't about arguing that staying in is better, or that JimBob et al are cnuts, or disproving their points.

Can anyone see anything positive in leaving Europe? Anything? At all?
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Re: What are the positives of leaving Europe?

Post by Dirk @ Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:30 pm

Oh yes. Definitely

Saving ourselves £20bn(or whatever it is)
Removing any need for Farage to ever speak in public again after an initial self-congratulatory snugness
Removing the split in Conservatives to make it less likely that Labour will get in
Removing the excuse for Phesque/Dmesque whinges about some obscure regulation that actually doesn't say what they claim it does


Just lots of negatives too
(chief of which is just how smug Farage would be)
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Re: What are the positives of leaving Europe?

Post by Dirk @ Tue Mar 08, 2016 7:04 pm

Dirk wrote:
Deuteronomy wrote:
Dirk wrote:So what are these heinous regulations that screw up YOUR everyday life that need scrapping Jimbob?


This is an excellent question, Jimbob I'm genuinely interested to hear what you think.

I'd still like an answer to this (and not any consideration of Teek's suggestion thanks)

Not even one Jimbob?
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Re: What are the positives of leaving Europe?

Post by Freddie @ Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:54 pm

jimbob wrote:
968 wrote:
jimbob wrote:
No its you who is talking out his arse.

I never said immigration should be stopped nor did I say it was bad. What I have said is immigration should be controlled so that we can get the best people we need to staff the NHS and the UK as a whole. To do that we have to control who comes and who goes. As is very often pointed out and ignored we make it piss easy for over 500 million people in Europe to come and go as they please but make it extremely difficult for someone outside the EU to get into the UK who may be better qualified.


Hmmm let's see someone who has worked as a clinician within the NHS for 20 years versus a blowhard who doesn't like immigrants, I wonder who's talking out their arse?

Actually you did say precisely that immigration was the reason why the NHS was struggling:

"I realise you are in the medical profession and as such are better placed to judge than me however to try claim immigration is not taking a toll on the NHS is just stupid. It takes a toll on all sectors and I see its effect in the areas of the public sector in which I am involved."

I'm afraid I'm not stupid, in fact working within the NHS I see that without immigration it would have been defunct many years ago, and frankly you are stupid to cling onto this Kipper obsession that immigrants are the root of all evil and societal pressure. It's utter bollocks which is appealing to the lowest common denominator.

The free movement of european citizens has meant that many skilled workers, such as within the NHS, can come to this country and work. The difficulties faced by non-EU workers is a reflection on our governments policies rather than the EU.



No wonder you work for the NHS. Immigration will take it toll on the NHS. I realise it may be hard for you to grasp but having an NHS system free to use to anyone who comes to the UK from the EU means the EU is used by Millions more people than just those resident in the UK. Your argument is like saying a Mcdonalds on mars will have as many customers as a Mcdonalds in the centre of London. Patently stupid. There are more people in London than on mars ergo the Maccy d's in London will have more people use it.


Jimbob I cannot even begin to tell how much I despise your insane bigoted paranoid rants about the NHS. The NHS runs on multi-country staffing at all levels from the lowest cleaner to the top consultants. I recently required ICU and Critical Care. Staff who provided my amazing care, recovery and support came from Spain, Hungary, the Phillipines, Australia, Nigeria and New Zealand. Without them there is a very high chance that I would now be dead. I am very angry that you post such shit and would like to apply a club hammer to your hands to stop you from writing such shit in future. Sadly, I have been told that this may be illegal.
Please stop being an utter cnut all your life and give your paranoid bile a rest for a few days.

Thank you muchly.
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Re: What are the positives of leaving Europe?

Post by tanglerat @ Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:32 pm

Freddie wrote:I recently required ICU and Critical Care. Staff who provided my amazing care, recovery and support came from Spain, Hungary, the Phillipines, Australia, Nigeria and New Zealand. Without them there is a very high chance that I would now be dead.


Freddie, Go here, and post the details. you may qualify for some retrospective cupping, and an Italian candle from Wales.
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