Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

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Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

Post by Disastrous @ Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:43 pm

I've been trying to get my head round it all. The sheer anger from so many posting about David Cameron on Facebook is staggering so I have been trying to understand what he has done wrong.

Then I watched the Beeb interviewing a tax lawyer who said the headlines should actually be "Man makes a modest investment and pays all his tax" as literally nothing wrong has happened.

I've Googled and Wiki'd Panamanian banking and whatnot and I can't see what the tax avoidance that has gone here is. Am I missing something because he seems to quite literally have not avoided any tax whatsoever.

And actually the sums seem completely mundane. To be a bit 'broad strokes' it seems like he made £200k and paid £75k in tax. That doesn't seem all that impressive for a stockbroker's son turned tax-avoiding capitalist, does it? I mean, he's made more than I did last year but I know plenty people who don't run a country that earned a lot more (and paid less tax, come to that).

Also, I can understand people getting angry if he's behaved morally reprehensibly whilst staying within the law but I can't really see that has happened either. A lot of people are screaming that the rich can use all these schemes to avoid tax but they can't because PAYE. But I don't understand what would stop any of those people investing some of their take home, or an inheritance in a hedge fund (which is what his was, correct?) and then paying the appropriate level of tax on any dividends etc etc exactly as he has.


So my questions, because this is making me start to question how good at comprehension I am:

1. Has he done anything 'morally' wrong? (I'm pretty satisfied he has obeyed the law but appreciate the need to be squeaky clean when giving tax avoiders a public telling off)

2. Is there more money hidden somewhere I'm missing? (I know about his mother's inheritance gift but I can't get cross at that and suspect my parents will do the same and try and last another 7 years too - why would you not?)

3. I know people are thick and believe whatever the media tells them but surely on this one, they're actually straight up lying about him? Has he actually don't anything wrong whatsoever?


I'm not especially defensive of Cameron but I just can't get my head around the level of vitriol surrounding this. I'd understand it more if the numbers were really mind blowing and he was living some sort of rarefied existence but to my eyes, he earns waaaaaay less than loads of footballers FFS. And yet the same people who worship Man U and Chelsea seem to be screaming about the super-rich fcuking everyone else.

I'm fcuking baffled by it.
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Re: Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

Post by Careless Whisperer @ Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:50 pm

I have come to regard politics and the reporting of it as a giant school playground. Kids calling each other names and then then the he says, she says brigade.

Frankly it's all rather embarrassing that they are supposed to be our representatives.
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Re: Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

Post by Ghost @ Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:55 pm

There is nothing illegal or immoral about tax planning. Put your hand up if you get your payslip at the end of the month and say, "ooh, I feel bad, I haven't paid enough tax this month". Put your hand up if you look at your payslip and say "I would really like to pay more tax please". Not going to be many people with their hands up are there?

The vitriol is coming from lefty wankers who now have a voice that all the other lefty wankers can listen to on social media, which makes the mainstream media sit up and take notice, and report on it more so it becomes an ever increasing spiral of vitriol.
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Re: Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

Post by Strawman @ Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:00 pm

Ghost wrote:The vitriol is coming from lefty wankers who now have a voice that all the other lefty wankers can listen to on social media,


A lot of it is coming from those in favour of Brexit, like the DailyMail, who hope they can dent Cameron's credibility before the vote in June.
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Re: Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

Post by Clown Ice Skater #4 @ Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:00 pm

1. It depends if you define tax avoidance as 'morally wrong' or not. It's not illegal but some people have a chip on their shoulder about paying the precise amount of tax they would pay if they didn't avoid it (IYSWIM).

2. Possibly, but unless it's in cash under the mattress or in someone else's name, there would be a record of it somewhere presumably?

3. The media are conflating DC's tax avoidance with the more dodgy aspects of the Panama revelations. IMO, he hasn't done anything wrong. He has handled it badly and made it look like he had something to hide by being all defensive but again IMO, the worst he's guilty of is a bit of hypocrisy over what he said about Jimmy Carr.
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Re: Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

Post by Clown Ice Skater #4 @ Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:02 pm

If people are going to take aim at the Tories, they should at least do it over bad stuff they have actually done rather than whip up fake outrage over a non-story.
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Re: Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

Post by Greg66 @ Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:11 pm

1. No (IMO - this depends partly on where your moral compass sits though. And whether you disliked him before this, in which case this whole episode is a convenient hook upon which to hang more hatred).

2. Doubt it. I've little doubt that there is a huge slug of cash that will come his way when his mother pops her clogs, and if Madame Cameron hasn't engaged in some fiscally sensible estate planning she's mad as a box of frogs. But that's not Cameron's issue right now.

3. I can't see that he's done anything blameworthy. What I perceive is a feeding frenzy of deliberately misleading headlines generated because they tell a newsworthy story, irrespective of the facts. And there is a definite anti-Cameron animus in the media right now: Ken Livingstone (who has waded in for the pitchfork mob) could have been eviscerated for his funnelling of income through a company, but has been left strangely untouched.
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Re: Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

Post by Deuteronomy @ Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:18 pm

Ghost wrote:There is nothing illegal or immoral about tax planning. Put your hand up if you get your payslip at the end of the month and say, "ooh, I feel bad, I haven't paid enough tax this month". Put your hand up if you look at your payslip and say "I would really like to pay more tax please". Not going to be many people with their hands up are there?

The vitriol is coming from lefty wankers who now have a voice that all the other lefty wankers can listen to on social media, which makes the mainstream media sit up and take notice, and report on it more so it becomes an ever increasing spiral of vitriol.


This.

I also wonder how much is class hatred/politics of envy - I'd love to know how many of the haters have at some point offered cash to knock off the VAT. (Which is illegal, unlike tax avoidance)
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Re: Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

Post by Monty @ Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:22 pm

Deuteronomy wrote:
I also wonder how much is class hatred/politics of envy...)


An awful lot, as I see it. The air is green with envy at the moment, stoked by brother Jeremy.
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Re: Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

Post by Turntable @ Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:26 pm

Clown Ice Skater #4 wrote:1. It depends if you define tax avoidance as 'morally wrong' or not. It's not illegal but some people have a chip on their shoulder about paying the precise amount of tax they would pay if they didn't avoid it (IYSWIM).
.


Has he actually avoided tax though, that's the question?
I saw the same thing as Dis.

My understanding is:

1 This offshore thing is a hedge fund based in Bahamas/Ireland for reasons of ease of conducting business
2 Profits are paid on the investment to DC
3 DC put that on his tax return as income and pays tax on it.

I don't see that any tax avoidance has happened at all.
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Re: Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

Post by Clown Ice Skater #4 @ Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:28 pm

Turntable wrote:
Clown Ice Skater #4 wrote:1. It depends if you define tax avoidance as 'morally wrong' or not. It's not illegal but some people have a chip on their shoulder about paying the precise amount of tax they would pay if they didn't avoid it (IYSWIM).
.


Has he actually avoided tax though, that's the question?
I saw the same thing as Dis.

My understanding is:

1 This offshore thing is a hedge fund based in Bahamas/Ireland for reasons of ease of conducting business
2 Profits are paid on the investment to DC
3 DC put that on his tax return as income and pays tax on it.

I don't see that any tax avoidance has happened at all.


You are correct - sorry, I was using that phrase as shorthand for the whole thing but reading it back it looks like I'm saying something different.
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Re: Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

Post by Greg66 @ Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:52 pm

Turntable wrote:
Clown Ice Skater #4 wrote:1. It depends if you define tax avoidance as 'morally wrong' or not. It's not illegal but some people have a chip on their shoulder about paying the precise amount of tax they would pay if they didn't avoid it (IYSWIM).
.


Has he actually avoided tax though, that's the question?
I saw the same thing as Dis.

My understanding is:

1 This offshore thing is a hedge fund based in Bahamas/Ireland for reasons of ease of conducting business
2 Profits are paid on the investment to DC
3 DC put that on his tax return as income and pays tax on it.

I don't see that any tax avoidance has happened at all.


That's bang on. And the papers seemed to have picked that up now. Which is why the focus has moved to the £200k gifted to him by his mother. That will escape IHT - legitimately - that would otherwise be payable by his mother's estate on her death provided she survives the gift by 7 years. But now that gift is coming under fire as tax avoidance. As if somehow it is immoral to take advantage of a specific statutory provision. It's complete shit stirring of the highest order.

Miliband got off incredibly lightly by comparison for his deed of variation of his father's will. Also a perfectly legitimate and moral piece of tax avoidance.

I get the sense that a lot of papers are using this as a collateral attack on Cameron's pro-EU stance. Big news day for them if he loses the referendum.
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Re: Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

Post by Disastrous @ Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:04 pm

So, it literally is bollocks? Amazing. What a country we live in. This shows a very ugly side of our press and public.

The follow-on question that I suppose is generated is:

Is it 'tax avoidance' to minimise your exposure to tax?

To me, it isn't. Tax avoidance would be difficult to define but would seem to be behaving outwith the spirit of the law through sharp practice (I'm finding it quite difficult to come up with specific examples as I on't know enough about it) and stuff like gifting your children money and then having the audacity to live a bit longer doesn't quite seem to cut it. Neither does investing in a fund and then paying UK tax on your dividends.

Many of us pay a man to make sure we don't pay more tax than we have to. I'm all for tax and understand why a country needs it to function but I would like to use every legal avenue open to me to pay less of it. That's not immoral - it's just common sense.
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Re: Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

Post by Il Duce @ Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:12 pm

Eh,what is this tax thing?
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Re: Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

Post by Käsemeister @ Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:14 pm

An ISA is tax avoidance.

A pension is tax avoidance.

An expenses or mileage claim is tax avoidance.
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Re: Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

Post by Greg66 @ Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:26 pm

Tax avoidance: any lawful means to reduce the amount of tax you pay. Ranging from ISAs and pensions to paying yourself via a company instead of by PAYE to the use of corporate structures and intra group management charges to reduce profits in a high tax jurisdiction and move them to a low tax jurisdiction to film financing schemes that actually work.

Tax evasion: unlawfully avoiding tax. Eg lying about your income/profits.

The bit in the middle: schemes that are designed, marketed and sold as tax avoidance, which comply with the letter of the law, which seem too good to be true and which end up being found by HMRC/the courts to be tax evasion. This is tax evasion, albeit done perhaps with the "innocent" mindset of the avoider rather than the dishonest mindset of the evader.

The problem with censuring tax avoidance: the Govt gets to draft the tax legislation. They can make it say what they want it to. If they fcuk up, it's their fault. It shouldn't be the taxpayer's job to pay what is due according to what the Govt thinks the legislation ought to mean (but doesn't). Because (a) the Govt's view of meaning could then change at a whim; and (b) the taxpayer doesn't get to pay according to what it thinks the legislation ought to mean. There's really nothing wrong with taking tax legislation at face value.
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Re: Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

Post by spast1kunt @ Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:27 pm

If the tax legislation was a lot shorter and less complicated all this bullshit would never arise in the first place.
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Re: Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

Post by Disastrous @ Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:41 pm

Greg66 wrote:
The bit in the middle: schemes that are designed, marketed and sold as tax avoidance, which comply with the letter of the law, which seem too good to be true and which end up being found by HMRC/the courts to be tax evasion. This is tax evasion, albeit done perhaps with the "innocent" mindset of the avoider rather than the dishonest mindset of the evader.



I can't disagree with any of that Gregg.

The bit I've quoted - what does the innocent tax avoider who is badly advised do?

I'm a wee bit torn on these sort of schemes (the Jimmy Carr things springs to mind) as if it's not actually illegal, then it's hard to get too angry about it. I feel like when HMRC cotton onto these schemes they ought to say "Well played - we're closing that loophole now so you can't do it any more but yeah, you got us" instead of pursuing them for back taxes through the courts. That seems unsporting somehow.

On the other hand, it's a bit cnut -y to try and avoid paying tax entirely and you should probably have more common sense than to be suckered into these schemes. But ultimately, if they exist and they aren't illegal...
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Re: Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

Post by jimbob @ Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:49 pm

spast1kunt wrote:If the tax legislation was a lot shorter and less complicated all this bullshit would never arise in the first place.


I have always felt this to be the case. If you make it so complicated that there are loopholes all over the place that can be used to avoid tax then the only person at fault is the taxman not joe bloggs who uses the system to his benefit.

Much as I dislike Cameron I cannot fault him on this as he has done nothing wrong. He has paid his tax as due.

Sadly the work shy lefty nitwits seem to feel he should have paid all bar £20000 of his earnings to the taxman as " he makes more money than everyone else so its only fair".

Stupid ignorant dumb shits who have no concept of what fair truly is.
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Re: Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

Post by spast1kunt @ Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:50 pm

A lot of tax avoidance schemes start out with a well-intentioned aim, such as increasing investment in British-made films. Within a short period of time however they're abused by the tax advisors and you end up with ridiculous situations such as Chris Moyles pretending to the HMRC that he's loss-making car trader. While Moyles and Carr might not have broken the letter of the law they and their advisors have driven a coach and horses through the spirit of the law. I don't only blame them for doing so, the treasury and HMRC should react much more quickly.
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Re: Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

Post by span @ Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:58 pm

It looks like I'm on my own but I feel mildly anti-DC for this tax stuff. Not because I think he's done anything wrong, but because he's been part of a movement (as perceived by me) towards slightly glorifying the paying of tax and considering tax avoidance as a moral wrong.

I pay tax and understand why tax has to be paid, but also feel enough disaffection with that particular system that I would do my best to legally avoid it just as they would do their best to legitimately snaffle my money.

I think your mum giving you some of her money now and hoping to live another seven years to save on tax is absolutely fine and a good idea, but people do this to avoid tax. There is a line to be drawn but for me it isn't between David Cameron's mum and the legal-but-not-in-the-spirit-of-the-thing tax avoidance schemes - it lies at what the law says.

I strongly agree with this what Greg said:
Greg66 wrote:The problem with censuring tax avoidance: the Govt gets to draft the tax legislation. They can make it say what they want it to. If they fcuk up, it's their fault. It shouldn't be the taxpayer's job to pay what is due according to what the Govt thinks the legislation ought to mean (but doesn't). Because (a) the Govt's view of meaning could then change at a whim; and (b) the taxpayer doesn't get to pay according to what it thinks the legislation ought to mean. There's really nothing wrong with taking tax legislation at face value.
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Re: Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

Post by Greg66 @ Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:00 pm

Disastrous wrote:
Greg66 wrote:
The bit in the middle: schemes that are designed, marketed and sold as tax avoidance, which comply with the letter of the law, which seem too good to be true and which end up being found by HMRC/the courts to be tax evasion. This is tax evasion, albeit done perhaps with the "innocent" mindset of the avoider rather than the dishonest mindset of the evader.



I can't disagree with any of that Gregg.

The bit I've quoted - what does the innocent tax avoider who is badly advised do?



There three basic options:

1. Fight HMRC and win. Which makes them a legit tax avoider. Often the promoter of the scheme will have an interest in taking the fight to HMRC. And if you're in a boat with lots of other people, legal costs can be shared which means top tier tax lawyers become affordable.
2. Fight HMRC and lose.
3. Give in to HMRC.

Options 2 and 3 have the same endgame: pay the tax that you've failed to avoid or end up bankrupt. I know people who've fallen into each camp.
There is a school of thought that says never sign up to a tax avoidance scheme (and "scheme" is the alarm bell word - no one describes an ISA as a scheme) unless you have the money for the tax that you're trying to avoid sitting in an account somewhere to cover your arse.
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Re: Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

Post by jimbob @ Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:05 pm

I think the other problem is the concept of fairness.

The stupid and ignorant think someone who is successful should pay more tax. They seem to think that to do this the more successful you are the higher rate of tax as a percentage of income you should have to pay.

There are a number of problems with that. Firstly it disincentivize success. Why would anyone work harder to earn more when they are told the harder you work, the more risk you take the more tax you be made to give.
Secondly because there are loopholes, due to point one those who are successful will look to minimise their tax burden and the more they make the more they will resent how much they are expected to pay as a percentage of income and the vicious little circle will continue and they will look to reduce their tax bill to as little as humanly possible.

To me fair is we all pay the same percentage of tax. God knows if it would actually work in practice as you would have to scrap pretty much every tax law to kill any loophole to stop people reducing their tax payment as there will always be those who will try avoid paying there share. The government would have to become efficient in how it spends tax money as well and that's never ever going to happen.
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Re: Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

Post by jimbob @ Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:11 pm

Greg66 wrote:
Disastrous wrote:
Greg66 wrote:
The bit in the middle: schemes that are designed, marketed and sold as tax avoidance, which comply with the letter of the law, which seem too good to be true and which end up being found by HMRC/the courts to be tax evasion. This is tax evasion, albeit done perhaps with the "innocent" mindset of the avoider rather than the dishonest mindset of the evader.



I can't disagree with any of that Gregg.

The bit I've quoted - what does the innocent tax avoider who is badly advised do?



There three basic options:

1. Fight HMRC and win. Which makes them a legit tax avoider. Often the promoter of the scheme will have an interest in taking the fight to HMRC. And if you're in a boat with lots of other people, legal costs can be shared which means top tier tax lawyers become affordable.
2. Fight HMRC and lose.
3. Give in to HMRC.

Options 2 and 3 have the same endgame: pay the tax that you've failed to avoid or end up bankrupt. I know people who've fallen into each camp.
There is a school of thought that says never sign up to a tax avoidance scheme (and "scheme" is the alarm bell word - no one describes an ISA as a scheme) unless you have the money for the tax that you're trying to avoid sitting in an account somewhere to cover your arse.



In my case having already been audited once for an error in my taxes through no fault of my own I have insurance against any claim issue that will fund legal representation should the tax man come after me as well as a paper trail showing any and all advice given to me by my accountant. I am not a tax expert. If my accountant tells me to do something to reduce my tax liabilities and that it is legal I will do it. If it transpires afterwards it was not I will have proof I acted on the advice of a tax expert.
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Re: Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

Post by Damien Thorn @ Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:13 pm

jimbob wrote:To me fair is we all pay the same percentage of tax.

We all do, don't we? Or do you mean one single flat rate for all taxation?
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Re: Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

Post by Turntable @ Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:16 pm

span wrote:It looks like I'm on my own but I feel mildly anti-DC for this tax stuff. Not because I think he's done anything wrong, but because he's been part of a movement (as perceived by me) towards slightly glorifying the paying of tax and considering tax avoidance as a moral wrong.
I pay tax and understand why tax has to be paid, but also feel enough disaffection with that particular system that I would do my best to legally avoid it just as they would do their best to legitimately snaffle my money

I think your mum giving you some of her money now and hoping to live another seven years to save on tax is absolutely fine and a good idea, but people do this to avoid tax. There is a line to be drawn but for me it isn't between David Cameron's mum and the legal-but-not-in-the-spirit-of-the-thing tax avoidance schemes - it lies at what the law says.
]


I half agree with you actually.
My perception is not necessarily of him glorifying the paying of tax (and related bandwagon) but it is of him pandering to the tabloids and pretending to think that things are a bit too naughty.
He's been caught by one to many banale sound bites in response to faux tabloid hysteria and that has made him look like a hypocrite.
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Re: Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

Post by Disastrous @ Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:18 pm

Greg66 wrote:
Disastrous wrote:
Greg66 wrote:
The bit in the middle: schemes that are designed, marketed and sold as tax avoidance, which comply with the letter of the law, which seem too good to be true and which end up being found by HMRC/the courts to be tax evasion. This is tax evasion, albeit done perhaps with the "innocent" mindset of the avoider rather than the dishonest mindset of the evader.



I can't disagree with any of that Gregg.

The bit I've quoted - what does the innocent tax avoider who is badly advised do?



There three basic options:

1. Fight HMRC and win. Which makes them a legit tax avoider. Often the promoter of the scheme will have an interest in taking the fight to HMRC. And if you're in a boat with lots of other people, legal costs can be shared which means top tier tax lawyers become affordable.
2. Fight HMRC and lose.
3. Give in to HMRC.

Options 2 and 3 have the same endgame: pay the tax that you've failed to avoid or end up bankrupt. I know people who've fallen into each camp.
There is a school of thought that says never sign up to a tax avoidance scheme (and "scheme" is the alarm bell word - no one describes an ISA as a scheme) unless you have the money for the tax that you're trying to avoid sitting in an account somewhere to cover your arse.



I guess so. I think I would just imagine that your average celeb gets himself a fancy accountant who doesn't say scheme at all and just says "Yeah, we can invest some of this for you in some offshore interests and so on to minimise your exposure to the taxman...'Course it's all legit - nothing to worry about at all" and if you aren't especially financially minded (I'm not forex) I can see how you might get burned, which seems a bit shit but fcuk it, I suppose that's what you get for not doing things yourself.
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Re: Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

Post by Turntable @ Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:18 pm

I was thinking about this last night, right. Bear with me.

Say I was the PM (and if that does happen this post will read "this post intentionally left blank") and I was caught in this exact storm in a teacup.
If I held a press conference and said "You press are a bunch of morons. I have made a completely normal investment, the same as millions of other people, and you are making it into something it is not. fcuk off and find a proper story you idiots." would the public love or hate me?
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Re: Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

Post by Disastrous @ Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:21 pm

span wrote:It looks like I'm on my own but I feel mildly anti-DC for this tax stuff. Not because I think he's done anything wrong, but because he's been part of a movement (as perceived by me) towards slightly glorifying the paying of tax and considering tax avoidance as a moral wrong.

I pay tax and understand why tax has to be paid, but also feel enough disaffection with that particular system that I would do my best to legally avoid it just as they would do their best to legitimately snaffle my money.

I think your mum giving you some of her money now and hoping to live another seven years to save on tax is absolutely fine and a good idea, but people do this to avoid tax. There is a line to be drawn but for me it isn't between David Cameron's mum and the legal-but-not-in-the-spirit-of-the-thing tax avoidance schemes - it lies at what the law says.



I kind of agree too span. I think he's looked a bit of a clown over it for pretending that tax avoidance is reprehensible etc. but on the other hand, the UK seems to be in the grip of the most almighty state of envy that I can sort of understand why he did. That said, the PM should be smarter than that, and should either not be doing it, or not pretending you're a bad man for doing it.

It staggers me that you can't stand up and say "There's nothing wrong with earning a lot of money as long as you pay tax on it and there is nothing wrong with minimising your exposure to tax as long as it's legal".

And then I look don Facebook and saw that somebody did this afternoon/yesterday and now all the unwashed are frothing about what a bunch of cnuts the rich are.

It's all beyond me.
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Re: Right, all this DC tax return stuff...

Post by Disastrous @ Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:28 pm

Turntable wrote:I was thinking about this last night, right. Bear with me.

Say I was the PM (and if that does happen this post will read "this post intentionally left blank") and I was caught in this exact storm in a teacup.
If I held a press conference and said "You press are a bunch of morons. I have made a completely normal investment, the same as millions of other people, and you are making it into something it is not. fcuk off and find a proper story you idiots." would the public love or hate me?



Laugh - see my post above this. They'd fcuking hate you and would say the following:

"He's got access to schemes like this that the rest of us don't have!!!!!!" (because if you're PAYE then of course, you aren't allowed to invest your savings in any way)

"He's got no idea how the real world lives!!!" (A clue - it's not generally on benefits love!)

"All Eton and Oxford jobs for the boys!!!!" (Getting more hysterical by this point - not really a comment so much as just angry words)

"Dirty Tory scum stealing from our disabled benefits to fund...to fund...fcuking Etonian scumbags!!!!" (Yeah, lost momentum halfway through but rallied well with a bit of class envy)
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