Why are the Lib Dems so unpopular?

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Why are the Lib Dems so unpopular?

Post by Disastrous @ Mon May 23, 2016 9:18 am

Every time I read about the Lib Dems, I always think that they seem broadly the most representative party of my views on things. They also have had a series of broadly inoffensive leaders and as far as I understand it, Ashdown, Kennedy and Campbell were all quite well regarded as brains in their own right.

They seem to represent a good alternative to the Tories if you are mildly right of centre but would rather do without some of the more brutally capitalist elements of Tory policy and they seem to have a more genuine social conscious than Labour.

But yet they seem a completely spent force and for as long as I can remember, voting for them has always been 'a wasted vote' hence their vote seems to split between Tories and nonsense stuff like the Green Party.

Why have they not done better? I've never voted for them but I can't really say why not. I think it's because it would be 'silly' to vote for them, but of course if many people are thinking that, then it wouldn't be silly at all.

My guess is that their progressive taxation policies are probably what shoots them in the foot but not enough of an expert to know.

Thoughts?
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Re: Why are the Lib Dems so unpopular?

Post by Ghost @ Mon May 23, 2016 9:31 am

Too willing to suck the cock of power eg Clegg. About as much gravitas as a pint of week old milk.
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Re: Why are the Lib Dems so unpopular?

Post by Doctor Congo @ Mon May 23, 2016 9:36 am

Disastrous wrote:Every time I read about the Lib Dems, I always think that they seem broadly the most representative party of my views on things. They also have had a series of broadly inoffensive leaders and as far as I understand it, Ashdown, Kennedy and Campbell were all quite well regarded as brains in their own right.

They seem to represent a good alternative to the Tories if you are mildly right of centre but would rather do without some of the more brutally capitalist elements of Tory policy and they seem to have a more genuine social conscious than Labour.

But yet they seem a completely spent force and for as long as I can remember, voting for them has always been 'a wasted vote' hence their vote seems to split between Tories and nonsense stuff like the Green Party.

Why have they not done better? I've never voted for them but I can't really say why not. I think it's because it would be 'silly' to vote for them, but of course if many people are thinking that, then it wouldn't be silly at all.

My guess is that their progressive taxation policies are probably what shoots them in the foot but not enough of an expert to know.

Thoughts?



I'd just mentioned wistfully how I missed them in gov at the moment. I think the problem is too often they have appeared to left of centre to some and as ghost has said, too willing to acquiesce to gain power though I suspect history won't have that judgement in future.

Another issue is that they are generally nice and reasonable sounding rather than bombastic or aggressive, we seem to prefer wankers like that as politicians like Farage.
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Re: Why are the Lib Dems so unpopular?

Post by Pigeon @ Mon May 23, 2016 9:45 am

Image
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Re: Why are the Lib Dems so unpopular?

Post by Disastrous @ Mon May 23, 2016 9:47 am

Doctor Congo wrote:
Disastrous wrote:Every time I read about the Lib Dems, I always think that they seem broadly the most representative party of my views on things. They also have had a series of broadly inoffensive leaders and as far as I understand it, Ashdown, Kennedy and Campbell were all quite well regarded as brains in their own right.

They seem to represent a good alternative to the Tories if you are mildly right of centre but would rather do without some of the more brutally capitalist elements of Tory policy and they seem to have a more genuine social conscious than Labour.

But yet they seem a completely spent force and for as long as I can remember, voting for them has always been 'a wasted vote' hence their vote seems to split between Tories and nonsense stuff like the Green Party.

Why have they not done better? I've never voted for them but I can't really say why not. I think it's because it would be 'silly' to vote for them, but of course if many people are thinking that, then it wouldn't be silly at all.

My guess is that their progressive taxation policies are probably what shoots them in the foot but not enough of an expert to know.

Thoughts?



I'd just mentioned wistfully how I missed them in gov at the moment. I think the problem is too often they have appeared to left of centre to some and as ghost has said, too willing to acquiesce to gain power though I suspect history won't have that judgement in future.

Another issue is that they are generally nice and reasonable sounding rather than bombastic or aggressive, we seem to prefer wankers like that as politicians like Farage.


It was your post that put me in mind of it, actually.

'Nice and reasonable sounding' is a good way to describe them I think. They always struck me as idealistic but quite pragmatic, which is I think a good thing.

As Ghost says, they have certainly lacked gravitas, but I think I'm more inclined to vote for policy than personality.

Does anyone really loathe what they stand for?
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Re: Why are the Lib Dems so unpopular?

Post by Doctor Congo @ Mon May 23, 2016 9:55 am

Disastrous wrote:
Doctor Congo wrote:
Disastrous wrote:Every time I read about the Lib Dems, I always think that they seem broadly the most representative party of my views on things. They also have had a series of broadly inoffensive leaders and as far as I understand it, Ashdown, Kennedy and Campbell were all quite well regarded as brains in their own right.

They seem to represent a good alternative to the Tories if you are mildly right of centre but would rather do without some of the more brutally capitalist elements of Tory policy and they seem to have a more genuine social conscious than Labour.

But yet they seem a completely spent force and for as long as I can remember, voting for them has always been 'a wasted vote' hence their vote seems to split between Tories and nonsense stuff like the Green Party.

Why have they not done better? I've never voted for them but I can't really say why not. I think it's because it would be 'silly' to vote for them, but of course if many people are thinking that, then it wouldn't be silly at all.

My guess is that their progressive taxation policies are probably what shoots them in the foot but not enough of an expert to know.

Thoughts?



I'd just mentioned wistfully how I missed them in gov at the moment. I think the problem is too often they have appeared to left of centre to some and as ghost has said, too willing to acquiesce to gain power though I suspect history won't have that judgement in future.

Another issue is that they are generally nice and reasonable sounding rather than bombastic or aggressive, we seem to prefer wankers like that as politicians like Farage.


It was your post that put me in mind of it, actually.

'Nice and reasonable sounding' is a good way to describe them I think. They always struck me as idealistic but quite pragmatic, which is I think a good thing.

As Ghost says, they have certainly lacked gravitas, but I think I'm more inclined to vote for policy than personality.

Does anyone really loathe what they stand for?


Some do. See the bile that appears when the words 'public sector' are uttered.
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Re: Why are the Lib Dems so unpopular?

Post by Käsemeister @ Mon May 23, 2016 9:55 am

Their own voters do. They were abandoned in droves at the last election.
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Re: Why are the Lib Dems so unpopular?

Post by Disastrous @ Mon May 23, 2016 10:05 am

Käsemeister wrote:Their own voters do. They were abandoned in droves at the last election.



Is that a function of Clegg the personality vacuum and his climbing in to bed with Cameron and then disappearing from view?

Or something more fundamental that they have changed within the core of the party?

I suppose the question is really, 'would the Lib Dem deserters still like to vote for a credible Lib Dem leader or has something turned them right off?'

As an aside, I had to google their new leader, which is a bad sign I suppose. Never heard of him!
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Re: Why are the Lib Dems so unpopular?

Post by thekungfury @ Mon May 23, 2016 10:12 am

I pity them. Their politic also aligns with many of my views but they always had this "wasted vote" attached to them. Suddenly the wasted vote wasn't wasted any more and they finally got into a position of power and could really make a difference. Except they couldn't really do much and when it came down to some of their big principles (e.g. tuition fees) they bottled it.

I actually think they did a decent job in gov. That job being to reign in the Torys.
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Re: Why are the Lib Dems so unpopular?

Post by Rod Rammage @ Mon May 23, 2016 10:12 am

The libdems are such pussies.

Tories like to make money. Labour want to take the money off Tories. The libdems just stand on the side saying "calm down everyone" but no one is listening.
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Re: Why are the Lib Dems so unpopular?

Post by CJ+ @ Mon May 23, 2016 11:36 am

Pigeon wrote:Image

That's accurately representative of all local government, irrespective of political inclination.
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Re: Why are the Lib Dems so unpopular?

Post by jimbob @ Mon May 23, 2016 12:18 pm

Personally I always preferred them over Labour however I consider them to be unrealistic dreamers unable to accept the realities of their policies such as wood burning power stations in place of coal. So cut down trees to reduce emission and save the environment stupidity at its best but they could not see how that would happen because they were told it would be sustainable chippings.

They had some great ideas and were a reasonable enough bunch but their supporters abandoned them because they appeal to liberal zealots who have no idea how to deal with not getting what they want or other people having a different opinion to them who subsequently throw a tantrum and go off and sulk for ages.
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Re: Why are the Lib Dems so unpopular?

Post by CJ+ @ Mon May 23, 2016 12:26 pm

What the fcuking hell is a "liberal zealot"?

Someone who aggressively campaigns for equality and freedom from oppression? Someone who violently suppresses racists and misogynists?

Someone who takes these ideas and rams them down your throat, denying your god-given right to be an offensive racist cnut?

The bastards.
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Re: Why are the Lib Dems so unpopular?

Post by thekungfury @ Mon May 23, 2016 12:29 pm

That Lib Dem council picture always reminds me of this that I did for the Photoshop Charlie Onto Things thread.

charlie.jpg
disturbing
charlie.jpg (66.79 KiB) Viewed 2161 times
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Re: Why are the Lib Dems so unpopular?

Post by CJ+ @ Mon May 23, 2016 12:35 pm

Uncanny!
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Re: Why are the Lib Dems so unpopular?

Post by Pigeon @ Mon May 23, 2016 12:39 pm

thekungfury wrote:I actually think they did a decent job in gov. That job being to reign in the Torys.


This would appear to be true, but unfortunately it wasn't very apparent until too late.
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Re: Why are the Lib Dems so unpopular?

Post by jimbob @ Mon May 23, 2016 1:12 pm

CJ+ wrote:What the fcuking hell is a "liberal zealot"?

Someone who aggressively campaigns for equality and freedom from oppression? Someone who violently suppresses racists and misogynists?

Someone who takes these ideas and rams them down your throat, denying your god-given right to be an offensive racist cnut?

The bastards.



Oh look an example just unhappily stomped into view...
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Re: Why are the Lib Dems so unpopular?

Post by Dirk @ Mon May 23, 2016 2:57 pm

Until Corbyn they were actually to the left of Labour on several policies. Plus they have always suffered more than most from having wacky policies voted in at Conference based on a few activists views which the leadership knows are political suicide


But I too agree think they were unfairly treated after the last coalition. In particular I think Clegg took the right decision on principle (siding with the largest party, especially when Brown was a bit lunatic by then and was offering no concessions). There was a docudrama on the formation of the coalition that highlighted his dilemma well I think. Especially when they were confronted with the truth of how bad the govt finances were at that point

But most Lib dems are more likely to vote Lab that Tory, so when the coalition implemented a broadly Tory set of policies (since they were the major partner), many Lib dems saw that as betrayal, whereas in fact it was just representing the view of the electorate in terms of seats and votes.

Lib Dem votes have often been accused of a lack of realism, and that was reflected in their expectations and subsequent disappointment
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Re: Why are the Lib Dems so unpopular?

Post by Doctor Congo @ Mon May 23, 2016 3:27 pm

Dirk wrote:Until Corbyn they were actually to the left of Labour on several policies. Plus they have always suffered more than most from having wacky policies voted in at Conference based on a few activists views which the leadership knows are political suicide


But I too agree think they were unfairly treated after the last coalition. In particular I think Clegg took the right decision on principle (siding with the largest party, especially when Brown was a bit lunatic by then and was offering no concessions). There was a docudrama on the formation of the coalition that highlighted his dilemma well I think. Especially when they were confronted with the truth of how bad the govt finances were at that point

But most Lib dems are more likely to vote Lab that Tory, so when the coalition implemented a broadly Tory set of policies (since they were the major partner), many Lib dems saw that as betrayal, whereas in fact it was just representing the view of the electorate in terms of seats and votes.

Lib Dem votes have often been accused of a lack of realism, and that was reflected in their expectations and subsequent disappointment



Problem is they're now anonymous which might be due to their less than charismatic leader. Funny thing is I'd be much more inclined to vote for them given how utterly cnuty the Tories seem to be. Once the Tories rip themselves a new one (politically) the Lib Dems could cash in given that ukip will be irrelevant after the referendum and Labour seem unable to gain the middle ground.
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Re: Why are the Lib Dems so unpopular?

Post by deev @ Mon May 23, 2016 11:08 pm

I think its because their voters are stupid idealists. They vote for them as they have good ideas, the orange book was decent, but then, when they actually get a shot at being on power and actually getting a few of their policies enacted and making an actual difference, their voters throw a massive paddy (ha) and seem to forget that they're the junior partners and cant get all of their policies through and indeed need to back a few they don't like in order for it to work as a coalition. In the end their voters went "well we'll show them for not enacting all the stuff I want, I'll note vote for them next time" and are left sitting with the party that enacted all the bits they didnt like from the coalition days running the whole bloody show. fcuking idiots.

Charlie Kennedy was funny, often seen around the Glasgow Uni Union post debates, wasted.
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Re: Why are the Lib Dems so unpopular?

Post by Doctor Congo @ Mon May 23, 2016 11:21 pm

deev wrote:I think its because their voters are stupid idealists. They vote for them as they have good ideas, the orange book was decent, but then, when they actually get a shot at being on power and actually getting a few of their policies enacted and making an actual difference, their voters throw a massive paddy (ha) and seem to forget that they're the junior partners and cant get all of their policies through and indeed need to back a few they don't like in order for it to work as a coalition. In the end their voters went "well we'll show them for not enacting all the stuff I want, I'll note vote for them next time" and are left sitting with the party that enacted all the bits they didnt like from the coalition days running the whole bloody show. fcuking idiots.

Charlie Kennedy was funny, often seen around the Glasgow Uni Union post debates, wasted.


So they shouldn't have ideals then?

I think they lost many votes because people felt they compromised too much on their key policies with the Tories. Unfortunately they weren't able to demonstrate the stabilising effect they had on the Tories which is becoming all too evident given the utter chaos that exists in Health, education, social services, pensions, military etc.
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Re: Why are the Lib Dems so unpopular?

Post by deev @ Mon May 23, 2016 11:32 pm

Oh they can have ideals yes, tempered by a realisation that you can't always get everything that you want. All their voters have done in abandoning them is to chuck the baby out with the bath water. They've taught the Lib Dems a lesson by effectively rewarding the Tories, who were the ones making the policies they disliked. Its stupid.
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