Positives to leaving the EU

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Re: Positives to leaving the EU

Post by Dirk @ Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:31 am

Strawman wrote:
Dirk wrote:Norway pays significantly less per capita - about 30% less IIRC.


Link, this link says Norway pays more (£119 per person versus the current UK rate of £96 per person)

Actually when taking into account the contribution EU makes to Norway it comes out the same on their figures. But even then it admits it is guessing some figures.

And it seems to use some figures that are oddly at odds with every source. For instance it claims that our current net contribution to EU is £96 per person, which equates to £6.2 bn, whereas most sources seem to suggest £8.5bn

Nor does it take into account the fact that Norway GDP per capita is higher.

So lots of mistakes on that site

May I suggest instead:
http://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/what-would-a-norway-style-relationship-with-the-eu-entail/
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Re: Positives to leaving the EU

Post by Strawman @ Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:42 am

Dirk wrote:
Nor does it take into account the fact that Norway GDP per capita is higher.

How is a per capita figure not taking account of the GDP ? you're just rambling now.

will come to about £623 million* or £119 a head, according to an analysis by InFacts of data provided by the Norway's embassy in the UK.





Riddled with mistakes, doesn't include figures for the border agency contributions or refugee support etc. so no more credible than the link I posted.

* Norway contributes €381 million (£294 million) to EU projects in areas like research; €400 million (£308 million) at the behest of the EU on grants to poorer EU nations; and 262 million Norwegian Krone (£21 million) on the upkeep of the institutions of the European Economic Area. These amounts add up to £623 million. Norway also contributes to Frontex (the border agency), provides humanitarian support for refugees, and seconds experts to the Commission. There are no public estimates of these costs, but including them would show the cost of the “Norway option” to be higher.
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Re: Positives to leaving the EU

Post by Dirk @ Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:46 am

Strawman wrote:
How is a per capita figure not taking account of the GDP ? you're just rambling now.

Because Norway GDP per capita is higher than UKs. Since EU contributions are based (loosely) on that, we would expect to pay less per capita than they would. So best make sure you are talking sense before you descend to insults
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Re: Positives to leaving the EU

Post by Deuteronomy @ Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:47 am

minimoog wrote:
Deuteronomy wrote:Some good news at least:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36702468

Farage has quit.

(Again)


James Brown used to the leave the stage in more convincing fashion.


Laugh!
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Re: Positives to leaving the EU

Post by Strawman @ Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:50 am

Dirk wrote:Because Norway GDP per capita is higher than UKs. Since EU contributions are based (loosely) on that, we would expect to pay less per capita than they would. So best make sure you are talking sense before you descend to insults


You claimed that Norway's contribution was 'significantly lower' whereas all credible figures I've seen say about the same. Fair point about the GDP per capita. You started with the 'riddled with mistakes' petty insults.
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Re: Positives to leaving the EU

Post by tanglerat @ Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:24 am

Poor old Norn Iron ish. Screwed over again by the English.

Lol you couldn't make it up. As soon as they succeed in persuading Westminster to let them set their own Corporate Tax rate, in order to compete with ROI and to persuade FDI to choose NI over rUK, by sacrificing hundreds of millions of their block grant £££s, the rUK screw them over by nicking the idea.
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Re: Positives to leaving the EU

Post by Dirk @ Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:30 am

Strawman wrote:
Dirk wrote:Because Norway GDP per capita is higher than UKs. Since EU contributions are based (loosely) on that, we would expect to pay less per capita than they would. So best make sure you are talking sense before you descend to insults


You claimed that Norway's contribution was 'significantly lower' whereas all credible figures I've seen say about the same. Fair point about the GDP per capita. You started with the 'riddled with mistakes' petty insults.

I said the site was. Not you.

But now you mention it, your face is riddled with mistakes
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Re: Positives to leaving the EU

Post by Strawman @ Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:35 am

I contend you only skim read it and leapt on the first mistake you could find. All discussion is speculative until/if the UK decides to leave and brokers a new EU trade agreement. Any claim that X amount will be saved, as you just did, is met by me with the same scepticism as the NHS £350m bus pledge. True Beauty, like my face, is always flawed.
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Re: Positives to leaving the EU

Post by Dirk @ Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:46 am

Strawman wrote: All discussion is speculative until/if the UK decides to leave and brokers a new EU trade agreement. Any claim that X amount will be saved, as you just did, is met by me with the same scepticism as the NHS £350m bus pledge.

I agree with that. We do not know we will be within EFTA of course. Nevertheless I content on that on balance we would expect our contribution to the EU to be less than it was (I suspect it would be political suicide otherwise), so the corp tax move makes complete sense, though whether it is too much or too little is guesswork.

I cannot, however, agree with your face
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Re: Positives to leaving the EU

Post by Strawman @ Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:54 am

Dirk wrote: so the corp tax move makes complete sense,

We'll agree to disagree on that, I think corporate tax is a useful measure for generating government income and if you reduce it too much then you reduce government's ability to finesse the economy. Seems a strange announcement outside of a budget as well, more political posturing before a leadership vote than a serious policy statement.

Dirk wrote:I cannot, however, agree with your face

Somehow reassuring.
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Re: Positives to leaving the EU

Post by thekungfury @ Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:56 am

tanglerat wrote:Poor old Norn Iron ish. Screwed over again by the English.

Lol you couldn't make it up. As soon as they succeed in persuading Westminster to let them set their own Corporate Tax rate, in order to compete with ROI and to persuade FDI to choose NI over rUK, by sacrificing hundreds of millions of their block grant £££s, the rUK screw them over by nicking the idea.

You know when you organise a night out and half way through the evening someone goes "Where's Dave" and someone else says "Oh shit did he get missed off the email again?" and someone else is like "Hang on let me check" and he gets his phone out and checks the email and then says "Oh fcuk we forgot Dave" and everyone is like "Oops" and then someone goes "Oh well, he shouldn't be so forgettable" and everyone does a guilty laugh?

That's NI.

Pretty much nobody gives a shit about NI except the Irish and Northern Irish. You can have it back tbh. We wouldn't even notice.
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Re: Positives to leaving the EU

Post by Tokyo Sexwale @ Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:02 pm

tanglerat wrote:Poor old Norn Iron ish. Screwed over again by the English.

Lol you couldn't make it up. As soon as they succeed in persuading Westminster to let them set their own Corporate Tax rate, in order to compete with ROI and to persuade FDI to choose NI over rUK, by sacrificing hundreds of millions of their block grant £££s, the rUK screw them over by nicking the idea.


Nicking the idea? Do you really think it's such a complicated and clever thing to do that no one else could have imagined doing it before the Irish?

You're so touchy about NI it's untrue. 'Screwing over' 'nicking their idea' etc. I bet no one even thought about NI in the whole conversation.
Eta Kung nailed it.
Last edited by Tokyo Sexwale on Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Positives to leaving the EU

Post by tanglerat @ Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:18 pm

Tokyo Sexwale wrote:
tanglerat wrote:Poor old Norn Iron ish. Screwed over again by the English.

Lol you couldn't make it up. As soon as they succeed in persuading Westminster to let them set their own Corporate Tax rate, in order to compete with ROI and to persuade FDI to choose NI over rUK, by sacrificing hundreds of millions of their block grant £££s, the rUK screw them over by nicking the idea.


Nicking the idea? Do you really think it's such a complicated and clever thing to do that no one else could have imagined doing it before the Irish?

You're so touchy about NI it's untrue. 'Screwing over' 'nicking their idea' etc. I bet no one even thought about NI in the whole conversation.
Eta Kung nailed it.


Why the fcuk you lot even hang onto it when you don't give a fcuk about it is beyond my ken. You're like a neighbour from hell who owns a quarter acre of wasteland that he doesn't care about, but won't sell to the neighbour who has good ideas about tarting it up, just because.

You really want those cnuts up north to start trying to get your attention again, like they used to in Manchester, or Birmingham, or Canary Wharf or the City?
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Re: Positives to leaving the EU

Post by Rod Rammage @ Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:20 pm

Dirk wrote:But it may piss the EU off even more


Laugh.

Remember all the threats from Juncker and his bumchums?

But former World Trade Organization chief Pascal Lamy said Mr Osborne had to consider what the EU would think.
He told the BBC the chancellor's plan would be seen as in effect the start of Brexit negotiations, and starting with tax was not the right way to go about it.

"The UK is already activating one of the weapons in this negotiation, which is tax dumping, tax competition. I can understand why he [Mr Osborne] does that, because obviously investors are flowing out from the UK, and he wants to provide them with some sort of premium that would make them think twice before they leave the United Kingdom.

"He has to think about the impact of this on the continent. This will be seen on the continent as the start of the negotiation.

"And I'm quite convinced that at the end of the day, if you want a proper balanced win-win relationship in the future, starting with tax competition is not the right way psychologically to prepare this negotiation."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news

Oh they want to be friends now.

Get to fcuk.
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Re: Positives to leaving the EU

Post by tanglerat @ Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:22 pm

thekungfury wrote:
tanglerat wrote:Poor old Norn Iron ish. Screwed over again by the English.

Lol you couldn't make it up. As soon as they succeed in persuading Westminster to let them set their own Corporate Tax rate, in order to compete with ROI and to persuade FDI to choose NI over rUK, by sacrificing hundreds of millions of their block grant £££s, the rUK screw them over by nicking the idea.

You know when you organise a night out and half way through the evening someone goes "Where's Dave" and someone else says "Oh shit did he get missed off the email again?" and someone else is like "Hang on let me check" and he gets his phone out and checks the email and then says "Oh fcuk we forgot Dave" and everyone is like "Oops" and then someone goes "Oh well, he shouldn't be so forgettable" and everyone does a guilty laugh?

That's NI.

Pretty much nobody gives a shit about NI except the Irish and Northern Irish. You can have it back tbh. We wouldn't even notice.


Good man. I'll tell my conveyancer to get in touch with your conveyancer about the deeds, and how much you're willing to pay us to take it off your hands.
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Re: Positives to leaving the EU

Post by CJ+ @ Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:23 pm

tanglerat wrote:Why the fcuk you lot even hang onto it when you don't give a fcuk about it is beyond my ken. You're like a neighbour from hell who owns a quarter acre of wasteland that he doesn't care about, but won't sell to the neighbour who has good ideas about tarting it up, just because.

A significant number of those who live in the wasteland don't want us to sell it to the neighbour, and will make that point with firearms and explosives if need be.
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Re: Positives to leaving the EU

Post by Tokyo Sexwale @ Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:27 pm

tanglerat wrote:
Tokyo Sexwale wrote:
tanglerat wrote:Poor old Norn Iron ish. Screwed over again by the English.

Lol you couldn't make it up. As soon as they succeed in persuading Westminster to let them set their own Corporate Tax rate, in order to compete with ROI and to persuade FDI to choose NI over rUK, by sacrificing hundreds of millions of their block grant £££s, the rUK screw them over by nicking the idea.


Nicking the idea? Do you really think it's such a complicated and clever thing to do that no one else could have imagined doing it before the Irish?

You're so touchy about NI it's untrue. 'Screwing over' 'nicking their idea' etc. I bet no one even thought about NI in the whole conversation.
Eta Kung nailed it.


Why the fcuk you lot even hang onto it when you don't give a fcuk about it is beyond my ken. You're like a neighbour from hell who owns a quarter acre of wasteland that he doesn't care about, but won't sell to the neighbour who has good ideas about tarting it up, just because.

You really want those cnuts up north to start trying to get your attention again, like they used to in Manchester, or Birmingham, or Canary Wharf or the City?


It's not not giving a fcuk about it, it's just another county as I see it.
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Re: Positives to leaving the EU

Post by CJ+ @ Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:47 pm

One positive to leaving the EU is that PHers (and other Leave-ers) are tying themselves in knots in an attempt to invalidate the perfectly valid polls which all pretty much identify a positive correlation between Leave voting and absence of education, income and full-time work.
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Re: Positives to leaving the EU

Post by Dirk @ Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:51 pm

tanglerat wrote:
Tokyo Sexwale wrote:
tanglerat wrote:Poor old Norn Iron ish. Screwed over again by the English.

Lol you couldn't make it up. As soon as they succeed in persuading Westminster to let them set their own Corporate Tax rate, in order to compete with ROI and to persuade FDI to choose NI over rUK, by sacrificing hundreds of millions of their block grant £££s, the rUK screw them over by nicking the idea.


Nicking the idea? Do you really think it's such a complicated and clever thing to do that no one else could have imagined doing it before the Irish?

You're so touchy about NI it's untrue. 'Screwing over' 'nicking their idea' etc. I bet no one even thought about NI in the whole conversation.
Eta Kung nailed it.


Why the fcuk you lot even hang onto it when you don't give a fcuk about it is beyond my ken. You're like a neighbour from hell who owns a quarter acre of wasteland that he doesn't care about, but won't sell to the neighbour who has good ideas about tarting it up, just because.

Because a majority of NI want to stay in UK. So its less like wasteland, more like a ginger step-child that you don't really care about but he wants to be part of the family so you let them eat leftovers etc, rather than force them to go leave with the paedophiles down the road who are always trying to entice them in with offers of regular meals from Spud-U-Like
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Re: Positives to leaving the EU

Post by Strawman @ Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:54 pm

Tokyo Sexwale wrote:It's not not giving a fcuk about it, it's just another county as I see it.


TR does work there so it's fair enough it's a priority for him. Also America cares.
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Re: Positives to leaving the EU

Post by tanglerat @ Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:06 pm

Dirk wrote:Because a majority of NI want to stay in UK. So its less like wasteland, more like a ginger step-child that you don't really care about but he wants to be part of the family so you let them eat leftovers etc, rather than force them to go leave with the paedophiles down the road who are always trying to entice them in with offers of regular meals from Spud-U-Like


Funny, last poll - the referendum - said majority of NI want to stay in EU.
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Re: Positives to leaving the EU

Post by thekungfury @ Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:12 pm

CJ+ wrote:One positive to leaving the EU is that PHers (and other Leave-ers) are tying themselves in knots in an attempt to invalidate the perfectly valid polls which all pretty much identify a positive correlation between Leave voting and absence of education, income and full-time work.

Old school friends of mine on FB match the profile exactly and they're proud that they have got one over on the so-called educated and rich people (i.e. earning more than national average salary = rich). Chanting "get over it" and "sore losers" and "democracy" and sharing stories from the DM or Express which "prove" Britain is great again. It's fun/depressing to read.
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Re: Positives to leaving the EU

Post by CJ+ @ Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:13 pm

tanglerat wrote:
Dirk wrote:Because a majority of NI want to stay in UK. So its less like wasteland, more like a ginger step-child that you don't really care about but he wants to be part of the family so you let them eat leftovers etc, rather than force them to go leave with the paedophiles down the road who are always trying to entice them in with offers of regular meals from Spud-U-Like


Funny, last poll - the referendum - said majority of NI want to stay in EU.

I'm not (Northern) Irish, so take this with that in mind, but I think there's clear blue water between "NI wants to stay in the EU" and "NI wants to be part of a united Ireland".

Obviously, this is (Northern) Irish politics, so any possible outcome will have to be mindbendingly complex and, whatever it is, will be the political equivalent of standing up in a hammock.
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Re: Positives to leaving the EU

Post by Dirk @ Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:29 pm

tanglerat wrote:
Dirk wrote:Because a majority of NI want to stay in UK. So its less like wasteland, more like a ginger step-child that you don't really care about but he wants to be part of the family so you let them eat leftovers etc, rather than force them to go leave with the paedophiles down the road who are always trying to entice them in with offers of regular meals from Spud-U-Like


Funny, last poll - the referendum - said majority of NI want to stay in EU.

But the question was not asked whether they want to stay in the EU if that means leaving the UK. Do you really think they would vote yes to do that?
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Re: Positives to leaving the EU

Post by tanglerat @ Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:48 pm

Dirk wrote:
tanglerat wrote:
Dirk wrote:Because a majority of NI want to stay in UK. So its less like wasteland, more like a ginger step-child that you don't really care about but he wants to be part of the family so you let them eat leftovers etc, rather than force them to go leave with the paedophiles down the road who are always trying to entice them in with offers of regular meals from Spud-U-Like


Funny, last poll - the referendum - said majority of NI want to stay in EU.

But the question was not asked whether they want to stay in the EU if that means leaving the UK. Do you really think they would vote yes to do that?


Weirder things have happened. 2 weeks ago the Shinners were yelling "Brits in!" whilst the DUP were shouting "Brits out!".......!

And it's a Union of GB & NI - don't forget GB itself is a Union of England & Scotland. If the Scotch fcuk off, there is no longer a GB Union to Union with NI.

Also, Little Englander nationalism genie is out of the bottle. Suppose they start considering they can save 100 million pounds they're now subverting to NI? That's actual hard cash, not a fictional 350million they thought they were saving on during the referendum.

Changed days, my friends. Changed days indeed.
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Re: Positives to leaving the EU

Post by Dirk @ Mon Jul 04, 2016 2:22 pm

tanglerat wrote:
Dirk wrote:
tanglerat wrote:
Dirk wrote:Because a majority of NI want to stay in UK. So its less like wasteland, more like a ginger step-child that you don't really care about but he wants to be part of the family so you let them eat leftovers etc, rather than force them to go leave with the paedophiles down the road who are always trying to entice them in with offers of regular meals from Spud-U-Like


Funny, last poll - the referendum - said majority of NI want to stay in EU.

But the question was not asked whether they want to stay in the EU if that means leaving the UK. Do you really think they would vote yes to do that?


Weirder things have happened. 2 weeks ago the Shinners were yelling "Brits in!" whilst the DUP were shouting "Brits out!".......!

And it's a Union of GB & NI - don't forget GB itself is a Union of England & Scotland. If the Scotch fcuk off, there is no longer a GB Union to Union with NI.

Also, Little Englander nationalism genie is out of the bottle. Suppose they start considering they can save 100 million pounds they're now subverting to NI? That's actual hard cash, not a fictional 350million they thought they were saving on during the referendum.

Changed days, my friends. Changed days indeed.

All true. But the question was why we keep NI. The answer is because, to date, they want us to. That might change. It hasn't yet
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Re: Positives to leaving the EU

Post by Tokyo Sexwale @ Mon Jul 04, 2016 2:23 pm

Strawman wrote:
Tokyo Sexwale wrote:It's not not giving a fcuk about it, it's just another county as I see it.


TR does work there so it's fair enough it's a priority for him. Also America cares.

Fair enough.

Surrey voted Remain and the country voted Leave. Cry cry, bleat bleat, stiched up etc!
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Re: Positives to leaving the EU

Post by tanglerat @ Mon Jul 04, 2016 2:43 pm

Surrey? fcuk Surrey and their A22. Most annoying road in the SE of England. It's been over 11 years since I last drove it and I still remember being aggravated by it.
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Re: Positives to leaving the EU

Post by Dirk @ Mon Jul 04, 2016 2:53 pm

tanglerat wrote:Surrey? fcuk Surrey and their A22. Most annoying road in the SE of England. It's been over 11 years since I last drove it and I still remember being aggravated by it.

And don't forget that instead of the EU wine lake and butter mountain, fcuking surrey has the nation's tree forest.
And smug ocean
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Re: Positives to leaving the EU

Post by thekungfury @ Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:11 pm

gma'd
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