Some politics

Do you have difficulty sustaining your election?

Some politics

Post by CJ+ @ Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:47 pm

Rather than have loads of threads for every political thing that happens along.

I read this today. With a couple of American-specific exceptions (guns, voter fraud) it applies to UK conservatives pretty well. Substitute "Britain" for America throughout, obvs.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-it-that-c ... sse?ref=fb

What is it that conservative voters just don't get yet?
Chris Joosse

In no particular order:

No, the liberal left doesn’t harbor deep-seated desires and grand plans to control every aspect of your life in ‘political correct’ totalitarian style. You’re almost certainly being told that because it makes you easier to influence politically (there's nothing so unifying as a common enemy).

Yes, the folks on the left do love America too, and no, they don’t hate you or your freedoms. Whoever tells you these things is not your friend or ally- you’re their tool to the extent you believe that stuff. When lefties sound frustrated with you, part of that is they don’t like that you’re being taken advantage of in ways that affect everyone. Also, they’ve been trying to tell you this a lot, but it doesn’t seem to be getting across.

Liberals are never coming for your guns. They might want you to comply with some rules and accept some limitations to their use, and some are beyond angry with how the gun die-hards refuse to accept any regulation whatsoever, but it’s just. not. going. to. happen. The folks telling you it’s gonna happen are the same folks who just sold you your stockpiles of ammo at price-gouging rates because you were convinced you had to buy it while you could. They’re not your friends; you’re their marks.

No, lefties aren’t in favor of Sharia law when they make it clear they don’t like to see Muslims discriminated against. It means they don’t want the USA to act like a theocracy, not because they want to impose a Muslim one.

No, the Nazis and fascists weren’t left-wing, and it doesn’t matter that the GOP was once the party of Lincoln and civil rights. What does matter is that the GOP is the party of voter suppression, gerrymandering, and false claims about rampant voter fraud.

No, ‘getting tough’ on social issues such as crime or drugs doesn’t work. If it did, the problem would already be solved. It's quite possible that the perceived unfairness of ‘get tough’ rules (as applied) contributes to the problems (like the way community:police relations aren’t good in high-crime areas).

No, the money from tax cuts to the rich never ever ever ever trickles down, and the people who tell you it will are making out like bandits while you wait.

No, we’re not broke from idle moochers draining the system and living large on too-generous benefits. We spend tons on corporate welfare and government contracts, more than we do on other sorts of welfare. The stories about welfare queens and lazy moochers living large on the dole are invented to keep your attention away from all the tax dollars going into corporate pockets.

No, the USA isn’t number one in the world at anything now, except for per-capita incarceration, military spending, and the prices we pay for medical care and pharmaceuticals. We have lots of potential to be better, and wanting the USA to be better isn’t the same thing as not-loving America.

We get it, the future in which white people are a minority makes you uneasy- but the problem isn’t who’s a minority, it’s that minorities are regarded and treated as second-class citizens by too many people. Fix that part, and everything has potential to turn out fine. Not fixing it means when we’re the minority, it’ll be our (or our grandchildren’s) turn to be treated as second-class, and we’ll deserve it when we have to protest about how White Lives Matter. Social justice isn’t about taking away white rights, it’s very much in our interests.

No, it’s not hypocritical when ‘tolerant’ liberals aren’t tolerant of intolerance or bigotry. It would be hypocritical if they were.

A lot of those jobs are never coming back, and politicians telling you they will aren’t your friends- you’re their marks. Already the easy-to-automate work has been automated, and eventually even the skilled labor (like automating work) will eventually be automated. (yes, today there is software writing other software, machines building other machines). Eventually, this will force us to re-think the idea of work being our identity, or how to organize an economy with surplus labor that still looks like America.
User avatar
CJ+
 
Posts: 16539
Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:39 pm
Location: Lave Orbital Station
Highscores: 1

Re: Some politics

Post by Strawman @ Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:04 pm

Yes that makes some sense but it is far too simplistic and you can't just apply it to the UK minus the gun ownership part: there are no large claims of voter fraud in the UK, the social welfare system is radically different, as are the demographics and just about everything, the English language is the one thing in common really.
User avatar
Strawman
 
Posts: 40217
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:50 pm
Location: insignificant next to the power of the force

Re: Some politics

Post by Damien Thorn @ Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:19 pm

It reads to me simply as an encouragement to not see people who think differently as being your enemy, but to instead examine why they might think differently.

It's not really about politics, it's about tolerance and bigotry.

It's something I've found myself engaging in unbidden as I've got older. I seem accidentally to explore the merit of another opinion before I snap to denounce it as wrong. Odd really, as anecdotally in my experience people become less liberal and more (way more) intolerant as they age. Fifty couples.
Last edited by Damien Thorn on Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Damien Thorn
Spamcop
Spamcop
 
Posts: 13275
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:24 am

Re: Some politics

Post by CJ+ @ Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:22 pm

Strawman wrote:Yes that makes some sense but it is far too simplistic and you can't just apply it to the UK minus the gun ownership part: there are no large claims of voter fraud in the UK

I got you covered, strawms.
CJ+ wrote:With a couple of American-specific exceptions (guns, voter fraud) it applies to UK conservatives pretty well.

Moving on...
the social welfare system is radically different, as are the demographics and just about everything, the English language is the one thing in common really.

Irrelevant and irrelevant. Our turboconservatives whine about all the same stuff and make all the same acccusations.

Honestly, haven't you even looked at PH and forums like PH lately?
User avatar
CJ+
 
Posts: 16539
Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:39 pm
Location: Lave Orbital Station
Highscores: 1

Re: Some politics

Post by Strawman @ Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:50 pm

CJ+ wrote:Irrelevant and irrelevant. Our turboconservatives whine about all the same stuff and make all the same acccusations.

Honestly, haven't you even looked at PH and forums like PH lately?


I honestly haven't I grew bored of PH and haven't looked at it on over a year, apart from an odd visit to look at the classifieds. I occasionally read some of the comment threads (and even contribute) on the BBC news homepage, I also get a filtered version of the Daily Mail comments via the DailyMailReporter on twitter.
There are fundamental differences though, whites won't become a minority in the UK in any of our lifetimes, probably will in America in the next 20 years (give or take). The UK isn't in the same position as the US which that author references, and I don't agree with his precis, the US dominates IT (Apple, Google, Microsoft, Intel and on and on), it also is preeminent in the entertainment industries; film, TV, video games. So America is great in those sectors, not just in a military sense.
User avatar
Strawman
 
Posts: 40217
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:50 pm
Location: insignificant next to the power of the force

Re: Some politics

Post by thekungfury @ Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:56 pm

Damien Thorn wrote:. Fifty couples.

Retrosmile
User avatar
thekungfury
 
Posts: 35865
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:27 pm
Highscores: 1

Re: Some politics

Post by Clown Ice Skater #4 @ Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:17 pm

Damien Thorn wrote:It reads to me simply as an encouragement to not see people who think differently as being your enemy, but to instead examine why they might think differently.

It's not really about politics, it's about tolerance and bigotry.


That was how I read it too.

I do find it strange that that the right continually complain that the lib-left won't tolerate any opinion but their own and shout down opposing views when I see exactly the same kind of behaviour from the right.
User avatar
Clown Ice Skater #4
 
Posts: 3372
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:40 am
Location: Melos Station

Re: Some politics

Post by Turntable @ Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:10 pm

On the subject of 'some politics' - who are the conservatives actually 'for' nowadays?
Strikes me they have spent their entire time in power making policies that benefit traditional labour voters and brexit voters.
Brexit is a funny political creature anyway because although rabid nationalism is arguably a right wing thing, the average voter is a council labour-voter type.
They seem to be squabbling over UKIP and Labour votes completely at their expense of their traditional voters.
Well?
User avatar
Turntable
 
Posts: 31779
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:47 pm
Highscores: 7

Re: Some politics

Post by Strawman @ Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:23 pm

A section of the party seems to have hijacked their agenda, so the 'lets leave the EU' part (a minority of Tory Mp's) is completely in control of the cabinet. What they can actually achieve remains to be seen. Today's Times has Davis saying Britain will stay open to EU migrants, so if they accept free movement of people in the EU you have to wonder what the point of Brexit really is

Image

ETA- I don't want to know why Boris isn't wearing trousers.
Last edited by Strawman on Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Strawman
 
Posts: 40217
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:50 pm
Location: insignificant next to the power of the force

Re: Some politics

Post by Damien Thorn @ Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:51 am

Why is the Labour Party specifically having so much trouble with anti Semitism?

Is there something ideological in the socialist standpoint?
User avatar
Damien Thorn
Spamcop
Spamcop
 
Posts: 13275
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:24 am

Re: Some politics

Post by Strawman @ Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:02 am

The explanation I read which makes most sense is that the lunatic fringe of momentum can't accept that there is anything wrong with their policies or message or we'v so the reason they haven't achieved huge success, especially in the last election, is because of a cabal of powerful Illuminati lead by George Soros (who happens to be Jewish) or other more shadowy figures. A load of conspiracy twaddle which is easier to believe than admitting they might be wrong about some things.
User avatar
Strawman
 
Posts: 40217
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:50 pm
Location: insignificant next to the power of the force

Re: Some politics

Post by Damien Thorn @ Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:24 am

That sounds insane though. I thought it must have been an inherent ideology rather than just bigotry.
User avatar
Damien Thorn
Spamcop
Spamcop
 
Posts: 13275
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:24 am

Re: Some politics

Post by Strawman @ Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:33 am

Well communism is against other religions, being a sort of non-theistic religion itself, but then you have to ask why Jews and not Muslims and Christians etc. If you read the bollocks they are post it's all about the global conspiracy this and Israel that, which is exactly the sort of shit Hitler was ranting about in the 1930's with a global conspiracy of Jewish bankers ruining Germany.
User avatar
Strawman
 
Posts: 40217
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:50 pm
Location: insignificant next to the power of the force

Re: Some politics

Post by thekungfury @ Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:22 am

I think there is a blurring of the lines. Some people oppose Israel’s foreign policy. Some people thinks Jews are running the banks, media and governments as a global conspiracy. Unfortunately all of the above is being automatically classed as antisemitic. As such loads of people are technically antisemitic, me included.

Corbyn and Momentum’s left wing socialist ideology is naturally going have a problem with Israel’s right wing stance. I don’t see anything wrong with that. Political party opposing a political party. The problem is how they go about it. Corbyn goes to a wreath laying at a memorial for terrorists that kidnapped and murdered 11 people from the Israeli Olympic Team. Corbyn defending a clearly antisemitic mural. Corbyn calling Hamas and Hezbollah friends. Etc. Etc. His actions have attracted the loons that hate The Jews. As far as I can tell he’s turned a blind eye for the votes.

The media have ramped it up and particularly the conservative media will jump on anything said or done. I personally think it’s been blown out of all proportion but there is also a solid basis for the accusations.
User avatar
thekungfury
 
Posts: 35865
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:27 pm
Highscores: 1

Re: Some politics

Post by Strawman @ Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:35 am

thekungfury wrote:Corbyn and Momentum’s left wing socialist ideology is naturally going have a problem with Israel’s right wing stance.


I think their credibility as promoters of Socialism would be enhanced if they occasionally talked about close neighboring states who have socialist policies in place, like all of Scandinavia, rather than the romantic idolising of Venezuela, until that went sour. But then that would clash with their desire for Brexit and the collapse of the British economy so a new socialist* utopia could arise from the ashes.

*actually communist
User avatar
Strawman
 
Posts: 40217
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:50 pm
Location: insignificant next to the power of the force

Re: Some politics

Post by span @ Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:39 am

I've been wondering the same and I largely think the same as Teeks.

Though I also think some people seem happy to conflate Jewish people and Israel, e.g. expecting Jewish people to be apologising on behalf of Israel, which is the sort of crap that other baddies do with e.g. Muslims and Islamic extremists. But you add in the idea that criticising Jewish people is 'punching up', and people are less inclined to examine what they're thinking and saying and why.
User avatar
span
 
Posts: 7259
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:14 pm

Re: Some politics

Post by Pigeon @ Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:34 pm

It's the natural reaction of the fascist establishment and the scum that control our media to the emergence of a left-wing politician who has enough chance of becoming PM of a left-wing government to make them shit themselves. Result, massive propaganda effort manufactured by said fascist media scum. I'm not going to claim the incidence of antisemitism in the Labour party is zero, since the instance of anti-any-group-ism in any party is never zero; but I do contend that its actual incidence has fcuk all to do with all the yelling and screaming, and even if it really was zero it wouldn't make any difference to the yelling and screaming since it isn't actually antisemitism that those doing the yelling and screaming are bothered about.

Antisemitism is a thing that Nazis do, which makes it a convenient accusation for actual Nazis to throw around to distract that kind of attention from themselves. It's also the kind of evil behaviour which is particularly abhorrent to the "politically correct" left wing. It is therefore seen as an ideal type of propaganda to deploy against the Labour party in the hope of alienating the same people who have flocked to Corbyn's support, and who have proven resistant to the more conventional propaganda based around appeals to personal selfishness. (It doesn't work, because the sheer clumsiness of how it's being done paints it as obvious bollocks, but those who deploy such gauchely obvious propaganda never seem to realise that inherent problem with their technique.)

It does seem to be popular, though, among those who aren't Corbyn or Labour supporters as a distraction from the undoubted xenophobia and Muslim-bashing which the right wing are so fond of themselves.

And they have a convenient hook to hang it on in the controversy over the adoption of an "official" definition of antisemitism which includes criticism of the Israeli government as "antisemitic". Which can fcuk right off. It's like saying you can't call Idi Amin a cnut because he's black therefore it's racist. Their treatment of the Palestinians is solid evidence that Netanyahu and pals are unquestionably cnuts and it is quite right to object to attempts to institutionalise censorship of criticising them for it. Did they expect us to treat them with any respect?

Britain must take some responsibility for the unrest in that area thanks to our involvement in the drawing of artificial borders in other people's deserts. But that is not at all the same thing as the uncritical support for Israel that the right-wing establishment are so fond of. Corbyn's sympathy for the Palestinians makes him a target and falsely conflating that with antisemitism is a convenient turd to throw.
User avatar
Pigeon
CTF Technical Expert
CTF Technical Expert
 
Posts: 24154
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:50 pm
Location: All alone in the crazy city

Re: Some politics

Post by Turntable @ Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:41 pm

On a slight tangent, but now that politics has been bumped:

Is there anyone here that, regardless of belief and opinion pre-Brexit, can see a party that they would even remotely want to vote for in a general election?
User avatar
Turntable
 
Posts: 31779
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:47 pm
Highscores: 7

Re: Some politics

Post by Blue Meanie @ Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:42 pm

Last edited by Blue Meanie on Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Blue Meanie
 
Posts: 1254
Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 1:48 am
Location: New York State - Kazakhstan - Nigeria - Poland - Middle east, and now Bulgaria!

Re: Some politics

Post by DI Burnside @ Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:03 pm

Turntable wrote:On a slight tangent, but now that politics has been bumped:

Is there anyone here that, regardless of belief and opinion pre-Brexit, can see a party that they would even remotely want to vote for in a general election?


Sadly no.

I've always voted for who's manifesto I agree with the most and have voted for all 3 (when we had 3 !) major parties at different times, with the Cons leading the way. Now I have no idea, although I'll be interested to hear what the new lot say.
User avatar
DI Burnside
 
Posts: 17896
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:44 pm
Location: Beds
Highscores: 7

Re: Some politics

Post by Strawman @ Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:07 pm

Turntable wrote:Is there anyone here that, regardless of belief and opinion pre-Brexit, can see a party that they would even remotely want to vote for in a general election?


Green, I know it's a wasted vote but the environmental shitstorm that's building up is the thing that seems most important, I think a lot of the new rise in extremism and identity politics might be flavoured by how people see that panning out; too scared to face the reality = allow fracking and don't invest in clean energy.
User avatar
Strawman
 
Posts: 40217
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:50 pm
Location: insignificant next to the power of the force

Re: Some politics

Post by Doctor Congo @ Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:12 pm

Turntable wrote:On a slight tangent, but now that politics has been bumped:

Is there anyone here that, regardless of belief and opinion pre-Brexit, can see a party that they would even remotely want to vote for in a general election?


If the TIGs has a candidate in my borough I’d vote for them. Or maybe libdems.
User avatar
Doctor Congo
 
Posts: 6648
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:39 pm

Re: Some politics

Post by Dirk @ Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:29 pm

I'm going to wait and see where we get to with Brexit first. As I have said before, by luck or design I think May will get us to a new referendum on staying in. Which I believe will result in a Remain vote.

If she does then I will vote for her. If not then I will see what the outcome is.
User avatar
Dirk
 
Posts: 30911
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:03 pm
Highscores: 5

Re: Some politics

Post by Aesgarth @ Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:38 pm

Turntable wrote:On a slight tangent, but now that politics has been bumped:

Is there anyone here that, regardless of belief and opinion pre-Brexit, can see a party that they would even remotely want to vote for in a general election?

Not really. TIG, but there's no chance of them having a candidate up here. I'll probably vote Green because I will vote for someone. The Conservatives will win in my constituency anyway..
Aesgarth
 
Posts: 4557
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:19 pm
Location: http://www.aesgarth.co.uk/uploader/
Highscores: 4

Re: Some politics

Post by Pigeon @ Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:40 pm

Turntable wrote:On a slight tangent, but now that politics has been bumped:

Is there anyone here that, regardless of belief and opinion pre-Brexit, can see a party that they would even remotely want to vote for in a general election?


Yes. Labour.

What you describe has been the situation at pretty well every election I can remember since I was old enough to vote: I don't actually want to vote for anyone, it's just been a case of who scores lowest on obnoxious policies and things I want to vote against. Everyone's manifesto has had lots of things I'm not in favour of and only a handful of things I think worthwhile, so it's always been a case of picking one on the basis of being fractionally less shit than the others. (Further distorted by our fcuking shitpile of an electoral system meaning that even if by chance there did happen to be a candidate for a party I liked (which usually means the Greens) it's a waste of time voting for them anyway.)

Corbyn's manifesto by contrast was a fcuking gift from heaven: nearly everything on it was something I'm in favour of and there were only a handful of things I didn't like. I've never seen anything like it in my voting life: a mainstream party with such an overwhelming preponderance of things I want to vote for that it's still streets ahead of anything I've ever had to vote on even after discounting it by 80% or so just on general principles. Even if it had been only 50:50 things I support:things I don't, that would still have been an enormous improvement over anyone else's manifesto I've ever seen over the years.

Note that I'm still well aware that he is a politician and I think the people who adulate him like a rock star and think he's going to be some kind of magical miracle worker are fcuking idiots. He's been a disappointment so far and I expect he'll be even more of a disappointment if he gets in. But that's still an improvement over Blair the betrayer, and a fcuking ginormous improvement over the party of staggeringly incompetent vicious selfish shits who are in power at the moment. I wouldn't have voted for the Tories in any case, but I'd rather hack my own genitals off with a rusty saw blade than vote for them now.
User avatar
Pigeon
CTF Technical Expert
CTF Technical Expert
 
Posts: 24154
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:50 pm
Location: All alone in the crazy city

Re: Some politics

Post by S1K @ Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:18 pm

I think there are two sides to the antisemitism thing. On the one side you have some people who allow totally legitimate criticism of Israel’s political policy to bleed into criticism of Jews as a whole, which they shouldn’t and which Labour should deal with harshly and quickly. On the other hand you have some pro-Israel people who are all too happy to exaggerate any criticism of Israel or perceived antisemitism. As a left-wing Labour Party would be more sympathetic to Palestine they’ll do anything they can to avoid a Labour government.

To TT’s question, no I can’t think of anyone I want to vote for. A Conservative party in hock to the ERG and chasing UKIP voters is nothing I’d be interested in and likewise a Momentum controlled Labour Party doesn’t appeal either. The Lib-Dems seem to be dead in the water.
Last edited by S1K on Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
S1K
 
Posts: 6794
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:10 pm

Re: Some politics

Post by thekungfury @ Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:00 pm

Turntable wrote:On a slight tangent, but now that politics has been bumped:

Is there anyone here that, regardless of belief and opinion pre-Brexit, can see a party that they would even remotely want to vote for in a general election?

I voted LD as a pointless protest last time. I’m seriously considering spoiling the ballot or just not voting next time.

As Pidge says I’m not voting for someone. I want vote against Tory and Labour shambles.
User avatar
thekungfury
 
Posts: 35865
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:27 pm
Highscores: 1

Re: Some politics

Post by Turntable @ Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:04 pm

Dirk wrote:I'm going to wait and see where we get to with Brexit first. As I have said before, by luck or design I think May will get us to a new referendum on staying in. Which I believe will result in a Remain vote.

If she does then I will vote for her. If not then I will see what the outcome is.


I don't really get that. If that happens then it will be despite May not because of her. She has consistently aligned herself with the hard right throughout this and her personal goal of seeing Brexit through at all costs has almost been disastrous.
User avatar
Turntable
 
Posts: 31779
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:47 pm
Highscores: 7

Re: Some politics

Post by Turntable @ Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:08 pm

Pigeon wrote:[Corbyn's manifesto by contrast was a fcuking gift from heaven: nearly everything on it was something I'm in favour of and there were only a handful of things I didn't like. I've never seen anything like it in my voting life: a mainstream party with such an overwhelming preponderance of things I want to vote for that it's still streets ahead of anything I've ever had to vote on even after discounting it by 80% or so just on general principles. Even if it had been only 50:50 things I support:things I don't, that would still have been an enormous improvement over anyone else's manifesto I've ever seen over the years.
.


I know that's not the point of this thread, but for that kind of manifesto I think Corbyn is identical to people like Farage.
I find him dangerous and disingenuous. Of course everyone in the world would love to see all the things happen that Corbyn promises.
But they are as dishonest as the Brexit NHS bus, the promise of not letting 20 million people in from Turkey, the promise that they need us more than we need them.
They are impossible to deliver and even trying would wreck our economy.
No different in reality to a manifesto promising to give everyone a million pounds.
User avatar
Turntable
 
Posts: 31779
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:47 pm
Highscores: 7

Re: Some politics

Post by stuart @ Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:25 pm

Turntable wrote:On a slight tangent, but now that politics has been bumped:

Is there anyone here that, regardless of belief and opinion pre-Brexit, can see a party that they would even remotely want to vote for in a general election?


No.
User avatar
stuart
I know a front door when I see one
 
Posts: 18070
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:15 pm
Location: There
Highscores: 2

Next

Return to Political Corner

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

yt
  Enable youtube titles