Some politics

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Some politics

Post by CJ+ @ Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:47 pm

Rather than have loads of threads for every political thing that happens along.

I read this today. With a couple of American-specific exceptions (guns, voter fraud) it applies to UK conservatives pretty well. Substitute "Britain" for America throughout, obvs.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-it-that-c ... sse?ref=fb

What is it that conservative voters just don't get yet?
Chris Joosse

In no particular order:

No, the liberal left doesn’t harbor deep-seated desires and grand plans to control every aspect of your life in ‘political correct’ totalitarian style. You’re almost certainly being told that because it makes you easier to influence politically (there's nothing so unifying as a common enemy).

Yes, the folks on the left do love America too, and no, they don’t hate you or your freedoms. Whoever tells you these things is not your friend or ally- you’re their tool to the extent you believe that stuff. When lefties sound frustrated with you, part of that is they don’t like that you’re being taken advantage of in ways that affect everyone. Also, they’ve been trying to tell you this a lot, but it doesn’t seem to be getting across.

Liberals are never coming for your guns. They might want you to comply with some rules and accept some limitations to their use, and some are beyond angry with how the gun die-hards refuse to accept any regulation whatsoever, but it’s just. not. going. to. happen. The folks telling you it’s gonna happen are the same folks who just sold you your stockpiles of ammo at price-gouging rates because you were convinced you had to buy it while you could. They’re not your friends; you’re their marks.

No, lefties aren’t in favor of Sharia law when they make it clear they don’t like to see Muslims discriminated against. It means they don’t want the USA to act like a theocracy, not because they want to impose a Muslim one.

No, the Nazis and fascists weren’t left-wing, and it doesn’t matter that the GOP was once the party of Lincoln and civil rights. What does matter is that the GOP is the party of voter suppression, gerrymandering, and false claims about rampant voter fraud.

No, ‘getting tough’ on social issues such as crime or drugs doesn’t work. If it did, the problem would already be solved. It's quite possible that the perceived unfairness of ‘get tough’ rules (as applied) contributes to the problems (like the way community:police relations aren’t good in high-crime areas).

No, the money from tax cuts to the rich never ever ever ever trickles down, and the people who tell you it will are making out like bandits while you wait.

No, we’re not broke from idle moochers draining the system and living large on too-generous benefits. We spend tons on corporate welfare and government contracts, more than we do on other sorts of welfare. The stories about welfare queens and lazy moochers living large on the dole are invented to keep your attention away from all the tax dollars going into corporate pockets.

No, the USA isn’t number one in the world at anything now, except for per-capita incarceration, military spending, and the prices we pay for medical care and pharmaceuticals. We have lots of potential to be better, and wanting the USA to be better isn’t the same thing as not-loving America.

We get it, the future in which white people are a minority makes you uneasy- but the problem isn’t who’s a minority, it’s that minorities are regarded and treated as second-class citizens by too many people. Fix that part, and everything has potential to turn out fine. Not fixing it means when we’re the minority, it’ll be our (or our grandchildren’s) turn to be treated as second-class, and we’ll deserve it when we have to protest about how White Lives Matter. Social justice isn’t about taking away white rights, it’s very much in our interests.

No, it’s not hypocritical when ‘tolerant’ liberals aren’t tolerant of intolerance or bigotry. It would be hypocritical if they were.

A lot of those jobs are never coming back, and politicians telling you they will aren’t your friends- you’re their marks. Already the easy-to-automate work has been automated, and eventually even the skilled labor (like automating work) will eventually be automated. (yes, today there is software writing other software, machines building other machines). Eventually, this will force us to re-think the idea of work being our identity, or how to organize an economy with surplus labor that still looks like America.
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Re: Some politics

Post by Strawman @ Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:04 pm

Yes that makes some sense but it is far too simplistic and you can't just apply it to the UK minus the gun ownership part: there are no large claims of voter fraud in the UK, the social welfare system is radically different, as are the demographics and just about everything, the English language is the one thing in common really.
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Re: Some politics

Post by Damien Thorn @ Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:19 pm

It reads to me simply as an encouragement to not see people who think differently as being your enemy, but to instead examine why they might think differently.

It's not really about politics, it's about tolerance and bigotry.

It's something I've found myself engaging in unbidden as I've got older. I seem accidentally to explore the merit of another opinion before I snap to denounce it as wrong. Odd really, as anecdotally in my experience people become less liberal and more (way more) intolerant as they age. Fifty couples.
Last edited by Damien Thorn on Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Some politics

Post by CJ+ @ Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:22 pm

Strawman wrote:Yes that makes some sense but it is far too simplistic and you can't just apply it to the UK minus the gun ownership part: there are no large claims of voter fraud in the UK

I got you covered, strawms.
CJ+ wrote:With a couple of American-specific exceptions (guns, voter fraud) it applies to UK conservatives pretty well.

Moving on...
the social welfare system is radically different, as are the demographics and just about everything, the English language is the one thing in common really.

Irrelevant and irrelevant. Our turboconservatives whine about all the same stuff and make all the same acccusations.

Honestly, haven't you even looked at PH and forums like PH lately?
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Re: Some politics

Post by Strawman @ Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:50 pm

CJ+ wrote:Irrelevant and irrelevant. Our turboconservatives whine about all the same stuff and make all the same acccusations.

Honestly, haven't you even looked at PH and forums like PH lately?


I honestly haven't I grew bored of PH and haven't looked at it on over a year, apart from an odd visit to look at the classifieds. I occasionally read some of the comment threads (and even contribute) on the BBC news homepage, I also get a filtered version of the Daily Mail comments via the DailyMailReporter on twitter.
There are fundamental differences though, whites won't become a minority in the UK in any of our lifetimes, probably will in America in the next 20 years (give or take). The UK isn't in the same position as the US which that author references, and I don't agree with his precis, the US dominates IT (Apple, Google, Microsoft, Intel and on and on), it also is preeminent in the entertainment industries; film, TV, video games. So America is great in those sectors, not just in a military sense.
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Re: Some politics

Post by thekungfury @ Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:56 pm

Damien Thorn wrote:. Fifty couples.

Retrosmile
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Re: Some politics

Post by Clown Ice Skater #4 @ Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:17 pm

Damien Thorn wrote:It reads to me simply as an encouragement to not see people who think differently as being your enemy, but to instead examine why they might think differently.

It's not really about politics, it's about tolerance and bigotry.


That was how I read it too.

I do find it strange that that the right continually complain that the lib-left won't tolerate any opinion but their own and shout down opposing views when I see exactly the same kind of behaviour from the right.
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Re: Some politics

Post by Turntable @ Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:10 pm

On the subject of 'some politics' - who are the conservatives actually 'for' nowadays?
Strikes me they have spent their entire time in power making policies that benefit traditional labour voters and brexit voters.
Brexit is a funny political creature anyway because although rabid nationalism is arguably a right wing thing, the average voter is a council labour-voter type.
They seem to be squabbling over UKIP and Labour votes completely at their expense of their traditional voters.
Well?
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Re: Some politics

Post by Strawman @ Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:23 pm

A section of the party seems to have hijacked their agenda, so the 'lets leave the EU' part (a minority of Tory Mp's) is completely in control of the cabinet. What they can actually achieve remains to be seen. Today's Times has Davis saying Britain will stay open to EU migrants, so if they accept free movement of people in the EU you have to wonder what the point of Brexit really is

Image

ETA- I don't want to know why Boris isn't wearing trousers.
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