Why is buying and selling property such a cnut?

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Why is buying and selling property such a cnut?

Post by CJ+ @ Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:37 pm

Solicitors: "ooh we need to do the searches, it'll take ages and cost loads"

me: "why? The house is 80 years old and hasn't changed since the last time it changed hands. Use those?"

S: "ooh, no, there might be an ancient right of way, or something. There might be a covenant restricting the right of the lord of the manor from gathering timber, hay and mussels on the property, and you'd want to know about that!"

me: "nope, honestly don't give a shit. I'll cross that bridge (shut up, there isn't a real bridge, this is a figure of speech) when I get to it."

s: "well we're doing it and we're sending you the bill, now do you want to buy a house or not?"

me: "oh fcuking hell fire >holds head in hands<"
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Re: Why is buying and selling property such a cnut?

Post by Greg66 @ Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:09 pm

It's because they know that "crossing that bridge when I get to it" will for 90% of clients mean "sue you".

They're doing the searches for their benefit, specifically to save the excess and claims record on their PI cover (the turn they make on the costs of doing them is peanuts). Even if you were to sign a written disclaimer I'd be quite surprised if they would let you go without the searches.
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Re: Why is buying and selling property such a cnut?

Post by CJ+ @ Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:17 pm

Yeah, I get that, and fair enough.

But why isn't it just "press button, get searches"? I mean, I can find a full synopsis of every episode of star trek* within milliseconds, Google has got computers that literally invent their own language to do machine translation, and yet it takes a solicitor weeks to find out that no, nothing has changed.

And when they "press button, get searches", why doesn't it just say "Have you built an underground lair, or bought half the street, or sold dealing rights to the russian mafia? No? Same as last time, then."

*And star wars, and coronation street, and whatever episodic thing you like
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Re: Why is buying and selling property such a cnut?

Post by Greg66 @ Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:28 pm

You reaally wanna know?

The solicitor doesn't do the search. He goes to a search company, who does the searches for him. The search company searches (eg) the coal board's records (and mining under your land which might cause it to collapse), the water board's records (are you on a floodplain?) and a ton more government and public authority bodies for information. The source information often isn't digitised. You may have to toddle along to a building and inspect bits of paper. And either way, the record has to have some qualitative assessment of it undertaken to work out whether the answer is "all clear" or "errrr". And your end product is produced at precisely the same speed as the slowest enquiry that is undertaken. Not the fastest.

It all takes longer than it ought to and is more involved that it ought to be, but it's not really the sort of thing that's capable of being easily automated to the level of a google search.
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Re: Why is buying and selling property such a cnut?

Post by CJ+ @ Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:29 pm

Greg66 wrote:You reaally wanna know?

The solicitor doesn't do the search. He goes to a search company, who does the searches for him. The search company searches (eg) the coal board's records (and mining under your land which might cause it to collapse), the water board's records (are you on a floodplain?) and a ton more government and public authority bodies for information. The source information often isn't digitised. You may have to toddle along to a building and inspect bits of paper. And either way, the record has to have some qualitative assessment of it undertaken to work out whether the answer is "all clear" or "errrr". And your end product is produced at precisely the same speed as the slowest enquiry that is undertaken. Not the fastest.

It all takes longer than it ought to and is more involved that it ought to be, but it's not really the sort of thing that's capable of being easily automated to the level of a google search.

But whyyyyyyyyy? Scan all those bits of paper into a computer, have one of Google's sinister AI own-language-inventing-soon-to-be-our-overlords read it, job jobbed?
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Re: Why is buying and selling property such a cnut?

Post by Greg66 @ Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:38 pm

CJ+ wrote:
Greg66 wrote:You reaally wanna know?

The solicitor doesn't do the search. He goes to a search company, who does the searches for him. The search company searches (eg) the coal board's records (and mining under your land which might cause it to collapse), the water board's records (are you on a floodplain?) and a ton more government and public authority bodies for information. The source information often isn't digitised. You may have to toddle along to a building and inspect bits of paper. And either way, the record has to have some qualitative assessment of it undertaken to work out whether the answer is "all clear" or "errrr". And your end product is produced at precisely the same speed as the slowest enquiry that is undertaken. Not the fastest.

It all takes longer than it ought to and is more involved that it ought to be, but it's not really the sort of thing that's capable of being easily automated to the level of a google search.

But whyyyyyyyyy? Scan all those bits of paper into a computer, have one of Google's sinister AI own-language-inventing-soon-to-be-our-overlords read it, job jobbed?


Why? Because Google isn't insured against their AI software getting it wrong and mis-advising. So there's no one for the solicitor to lay off the risk to.
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Re: Why is buying and selling property such a cnut?

Post by Turntable @ Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:48 pm

Greg you annoying shit. Are you deliberately ignoring his point?
Just like HPi checking a car.
Or companies doing a credit check on you
or whatever.
Everything is computable now and available instantly. Everything. And yet solicitors cant even work a fcuking email
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Re: Why is buying and selling property such a cnut?

Post by Greg66 @ Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:50 pm

Wait.

Ceej has made a point?

Can someone run the AI software over the thread and email it to me please? Pidge?
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Re: Why is buying and selling property such a cnut?

Post by thekungfury @ Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:33 pm

You have my sympathies ceej. 2017 for me was basically buying/selling and I hated pretty much every step. Only non-tossers throughout the entire process were the moving company who I can't praise enough.

One thing that does give me joy is that when automation does properly kick in the low hanging conveyancing wankers will be gone. Hate them with every fibre. Die
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Re: Why is buying and selling property such a cnut?

Post by Disastrous @ Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:11 pm

I feel you brother!

I wasted what feels like an entire year last year fcuking about with buying and selling.

Genuinely, we only technically sold the night before we moved and on moving day, at 3pm I still didn’t officially have word I could collect the keys.

Useless bastards all.
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Re: Why is buying and selling property such a cnut?

Post by Dirk @ Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:15 pm

Depends what you are buying. If It's a 2009 eurobox then surveyor and search is a waste. But if its century's old then its notm estate agents are always a fcuking waste of space and money though
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Re: Why is buying and selling property such a cnut?

Post by thekungfury @ Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:39 pm

What if, like 99% of houses, it was built between century's [sic] ago and 2009?
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Re: Why is buying and selling property such a cnut?

Post by Käsemeister @ Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:45 pm

Our current place was built in the 50s and was an utter nightmare with searches throwing up all sorts of flood / mining / lord’s right and duties issues. Previous place was in the Domesday book, searches showed a grand total of nothing.
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Re: Why is buying and selling property such a cnut?

Post by Pigeon @ Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:26 pm

CJ+ wrote:
Greg66 wrote:It all takes longer than it ought to and is more involved that it ought to be, but it's not really the sort of thing that's capable of being easily automated to the level of a google search.


But whyyyyyyyyy? Scan all those bits of paper into a computer, have one of Google's sinister AI own-language-inventing-soon-to-be-our-overlords read it, job jobbed?


Because it's government and therefore shit. Like how you can theoretically search the National Archives online but if you actually try it everything interesting comes up "This record has not been digitised". They ought to do it as they go along - every time they need to look at a record that hasn't been scanned yet, put it through the bloody scanner (and proof-read the result) so they don't have to dig up the paper again next time. This would mean that as time went on there would be fewer and fewer instances where they did need to dig up the paper, but you can bet your arse they'd still rook you the same fee for doing it, so if they thought about it they would see that that would be a good idea.

It would also mean that as time went on the searches would achieve a lower error rate, particularly on the most idiotic excesses like some dick thinking "all railway tunnels in London are the Underground" and not checking anyone else's records and the next thing you know there's a fcuking great auger come through the roof of the Network Rail tunnel into Moorgate.

Although there will always be the things that nobody knows about because they're centuries old and the records have vanished, like the mine shaft that appeared in my parents' driveway one day.
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Re: Why is buying and selling property such a cnut?

Post by CJ+ @ Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:28 pm

Update: all offers formally accepted, mortgage offer arrived, survey done on the one we're buying, surveyor round today on the one we're selling.

LOOK I'VE GOT THE MONEY JUST LET ME BUY THAT HOUSE AND SELL THIS ONE OH GOD MAKE IT END

ETA: nothing exciting found in the survey of the one we're buying. It's a house >tick< surveyor didn't go "don't buy it, it's shit" >tick< >stops reading<
Last edited by CJ+ on Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why is buying and selling property such a cnut?

Post by deev @ Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:28 pm

We got a scanned copy of some ancient thing stating all the details of how the land was owned by some mansion owner who had sold it off to allow the street to be built, it's basically irrelevant now as the stately home is long gone but it it quite interesting to read. As is the bit about Riparian rights for the river. Hope yours goes smoothly now ceej, that beach looks nice.
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Re: Why is buying and selling property such a cnut?

Post by CJ+ @ Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:47 pm

Another huge pile of paper through the letterbox today.

Something about a mortgage (signed). And the covenant things. Apparently I'm not allowed to build a shop in the front garden if it sells spirituous liquor.

Another dream dashed against the rocks of reality!
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Re: Why is buying and selling property such a cnut?

Post by Pigeon @ Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:05 pm

Just build it in the back garden then and use the front garden for a sign saying "BOOZE ROUND THE BACK".
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Re: Why is buying and selling property such a cnut?

Post by thekungfury @ Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:41 am

Other than the thread title there are surprisingly few swears. I properly hated this part but it seems to be going nicely. Hope I don’t jinx it.
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Re: Why is buying and selling property such a cnut?

Post by thekungfury @ Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:41 am

Nosey Q: did you go for a fixed rate mortgage?
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Re: Why is buying and selling property such a cnut?

Post by CJ+ @ Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:02 pm

Yep, we're fixed at 2.99% for >mumble<* years, on a total term of 21 years. The new mortgage payment is ~25% of my monthly take-home, so no biggie even if it's 2-3% in either direction. It's not like buying in the south, where half a percent this way or that translates into 'undreds of pahnds (see, I can do the accent and everyfink!).

Seems to be going OK thus far - my conveyancer has sent some humdrum questions (ooh a tree! when was the boiler serviced? what about the garage roof?) to my seller's solicitor, I've had a call from my seller's EA this morning wondering how things are going.

Fingers crossed that it's all as smooth as this going forward, but just faster.

*I'd like to be able to say I've scrutinised the mortgage offer from Santander in detail, but honestly I just went straight to the monthly payment, looked at it and went "yeah, that's fine" and signed it.
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Re: Why is buying and selling property such a cnut?

Post by CJ+ @ Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:36 pm

Latest update: conveyancing still going on. Searches all done, but their solicitors and my solicitors are still asking each other questions.

Our buyer requested a damp and timber survey. This is happening tomorrow.

So naturally on Monday morning, the top room radiator decided that this would be a simply marvellous time to piss water all up the wall (the bleed bolt had come out; I think it was very loose and it finally just popped out when the water finally reached the top of the radiator). At least we know the exact cause of the problem and have fixed it. I'll have to mention this to the surveyor.

We've already told the EA, who has advised our buyer, who apparently is unconcerned. Which was a relief - I had visions of this derailing the sale.

This feels bloody interminable.
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Re: Why is buying and selling property such a cnut?

Post by CJ+ @ Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:38 am

So the damp and timber man has been snowed off twice and is allegedly coming this morning. Everything's gone rightward by two and a half weeks, Fcuksake.

And now the stopcock is leaking. Can't leave it; plumber coming on Thursday.

Jesus bastard Christ this is a massive pain in the arse.
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