Some Brexit

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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Greg66 @ Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:06 am

Statement from No 10:


"It is clear the only action is to go back to the people and give them the opportunity to decide what they want: Boris to go to Brussels and get a deal, or leave without one on 31 October or Jeremy Corbyn arriving in Brussels with his surrender bill begging for more delay, more dither and accepting whatever terms Brussels imposes over our nation,"


Where to begin?

Going back to the people many would take to mean ref 2. But since Boris had a majority of 1 then sacked 20 MPs the reason for a G.E. is to get a functioning Govt.

How is Boris - assuming he wins - going to “get a new deal”? Absolute pipe dream, plus taking that position ensures warfare with Farage and the Brexit Party in a G.E., thereby splitting the notional Con vote.

If anyone yet understands Corbyn and Labour’s position on Brexit they are cleverer than me.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by tanglerat @ Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:09 am

Nah. The BP will target those northern Labour Brexit voting seats that would never, ever vote Cons, and pass on safe Cons seats to avoid splitting the Brexit vote. BP & Cons coalition afterwards.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Dirk @ Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:55 am

I don't think there will be an election pact between the 2. BP vote is falling off a cliff at the moment because Boris is being "strong on Brexit" so all the hard-line Brexiteers are saying they would vote Tory.

Which is why Lab & LD are not so keen on a GE because it looks like Boris might get a majority.

The thing that gets me is that whilst parliament has/will rule out a no-deal (in principle at least), they wouldn't agree on what they do want. So whatever the govt proposed, parliament could vote against it and presumably pass a law to prevent it.

Ridiculous. Plainly we do need a GE. Shame we can't have a referendum using STV on the Brexit options at the same time
Last edited by Dirk on Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Careless Whisperer @ Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:01 am

Dirk wrote:The thing that gets me is that whilst parliament has/will rule out a no-deal (in principle at least), they wouldn't agree on what they do want.


Absolutely, and if they don't decide on something by the 31st of October it will be a no deal Brexit no matter what they've enshrined in law, because that's the terms of the contract we have with the EU as it stands.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by ttwiggy @ Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:37 am

And now his actual brother has quit on him.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Dirk @ Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:07 pm

Greg66 wrote:
If anyone yet understands Corbyn and Labour’s position on Brexit they are cleverer than me.

Criticise anything and eveyrthing the the Tories do on Brexit (even if its what you asked for previously) and AT ALL COSTS make sure that Labour don't get into power and have to deal with the issue.

What could they do?
1) remain - they campaigned last time on Brexit and know that if they remained now they would lose a lot of support
2) Referendum - ditto
3) Implement the one deal we have - they voted against it
4) Negotiate another deal - what they are saying is unachievable
5) No-deal Brexit - after supporting a law to rule that out

They have at some time opposed every single option and would lose votes from every option
Last edited by Dirk on Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Greg66 @ Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:10 pm

ttwiggy wrote:And now his actual brother has quit on him.


Yeah. Even the diehards must be wondering how this fits into the plan.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by tanglerat @ Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:27 pm

Greg66 wrote:
ttwiggy wrote:And now his actual brother has quit on him.


Yeah. Even the diehards must be wondering how this fits into the plan.


They don't care. Jo-Jo was always a Remainer, therefore a traitor to the Tories and had to be purged from the party. Job's a good'un as far as they'll be concerned.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by ttwiggy @ Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:30 pm

At least one headbanger on PH is calling for a Stalinesque 'purge'.

The way that site has morphed from a centre-right 'make your own luck in life' forum to a 'blame everyone but me, and kick out the foreigners' stance is truly fascinating.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by thekungfury @ Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:36 pm

ttwiggy wrote:And now his actual brother has quit on him.

Resigning to spend less time with his family
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Clown Ice Skater #4 @ Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:43 pm

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Re: Some Brexit

Post by CJ+ @ Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:52 pm

Clown Ice Skater #4 wrote:
tanglerat wrote:
Greg66 wrote:
ttwiggy wrote:And now his actual brother has quit on him.


Yeah. Even the diehards must be wondering how this fits into the plan.


They don't care. Jo-Jo was always a Remainer, therefore a traitor to the Tories and had to be purged from the party. Job's a good'un as far as they'll be concerned.


Rachel Johnson is also a remainer. Family dinners must be... erm... interesting.

https://twitter.com/RachelSJohnson/status/1169569887364243456

I said last night at a charity do that the family avoids the topic of Brexit especially at meals as we don’t want to gang up on the PM!


(my emphasis)
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Clown Ice Skater #4 @ Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:05 pm

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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Deuteronomy @ Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:48 pm

thekungfury wrote:
ttwiggy wrote:And now his actual brother has quit on him.

Resigning to spend less time with his family


Gooooood.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by CJ+ @ Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:42 pm

I am now in two minds on Brexit.

My rational mind, the part of me with empathy etc, wants Brexit to be stopped or at least softened considerably. The less well-off in society will suffer disproportionately, with rising food and transport costs hitting them hardest, not to mention their jobs disappearing, and I don't want that, because I'm trying not to be a massive cnut.

My irrational mind, the part of me that does vengeance and bitterness and so on, wants the very hardest of no-deal Brexits, because fcuk those people! fcuk them in the fcuking ear! I'll be alright, as will my family, so fcuk 'em. They know what they want, and they deserve to get it, good and hard. The harder, the better! And being a massive cnut in these circumstances is something I can live with, tbh.

My irrational mind is winning...
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Damien Thorn @ Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:50 pm

I've begun to wonder what it is that I'm missing. When many intelligent, wealthy, business-savvy individuals (xxxx BJ PM) are furiously pursuing a no-deal Brexit, why am I fearful of what it will bring? There's no way I'm cleverer than them (him), so what do they know that I'm oblivious to, that makes them (him) so utterly certain that it'll be "good" for the country?
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by thekungfury @ Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:21 pm

I think wealthy might be a key point there Datho. Conspiracy hat on but EU passed laws some years back so that beginning in 2020 wealthy EU individuals had to declare offshore wealth and earnings for the purpose of tax back home.

It might be a coincidence that shortly after the announcements various wealthy individuals in politics and media began their relentless campaign to make the public believe they’d be better off out of the EU.

They went out by any means. Out with a deal, fine. Out with no deal, also fine. Just Out.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Käsemeister @ Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:08 pm

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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Greg66 @ Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:49 pm

At last. A new option is on the table.

C7C2C856-FF66-456C-A505-60DE2E255A47.jpeg
Yes please. I’ll take that.
C7C2C856-FF66-456C-A505-60DE2E255A47.jpeg (176.32 KiB) Viewed 250 times
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by mervynp @ Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:53 pm

thekungfury wrote:I think wealthy might be a key point there Datho. Conspiracy hat on but EU passed laws some years back so that beginning in 2020 wealthy EU individuals had to declare offshore wealth and earnings for the purpose of tax back home.

It might be a coincidence that shortly after the announcements various wealthy individuals in politics and media began their relentless campaign to make the public believe they’d be better off out of the EU.

They went out by any means. Out with a deal, fine. Out with no deal, also fine. Just Out.


I am surprised this aspect gets so little attention - surely this is an obvious motivation for a certain part of the leave campaign and its financing? I know it sounds very conspiratorial and 99% of the time it is just the usual chaos and incompetence but it must be motivational for at least the timing starting from when Mrs May invoked article 50?
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by CJ+ @ Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:28 am

Theresa May, after yesterday's day at the office:

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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Deuteronomy @ Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:21 am

mervynp wrote:
thekungfury wrote:I think wealthy might be a key point there Datho. Conspiracy hat on but EU passed laws some years back so that beginning in 2020 wealthy EU individuals had to declare offshore wealth and earnings for the purpose of tax back home.

It might be a coincidence that shortly after the announcements various wealthy individuals in politics and media began their relentless campaign to make the public believe they’d be better off out of the EU.

They went out by any means. Out with a deal, fine. Out with no deal, also fine. Just Out.


I am surprised this aspect gets so little attention - surely this is an obvious motivation for a certain part of the leave campaign and its financing? I know it sounds very conspiratorial and 99% of the time it is just the usual chaos and incompetence but it must be motivational for at least the timing starting from when Mrs May invoked article 50?


It's a very real part of the campaign - that's why A50 was triggered so quickly to try to get in front of the legislation
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by thekungfury @ Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:54 pm

Laugh. Poor Boris being shown up by a man wearing a tracksuit in a High St in the middle of the day

https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/1169676333028466688?s=21
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Turntable @ Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:23 pm

CJ+ wrote:I am now in two minds on Brexit.

My rational mind, the part of me with empathy etc, wants Brexit to be stopped or at least softened considerably. The less well-off in society will suffer disproportionately, with rising food and transport costs hitting them hardest, not to mention their jobs disappearing, and I don't want that, because I'm trying not to be a massive cnut.

My irrational mind, the part of me that does vengeance and bitterness and so on, wants the very hardest of no-deal Brexits, because fcuk those people! fcuk them in the fcuking ear! I'll be alright, as will my family, so fcuk 'em. They know what they want, and they deserve to get it, good and hard. The harder, the better! And being a massive cnut in these circumstances is something I can live with, tbh.

My irrational mind is winning...



Sometimes I feel like that too, but there will never be a point at which a Brexiter admits that the problems we are facing are as a result of Brexit.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by thekungfury @ Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:41 pm

Wetherspoons owner and Brexit backer has just reduced the price of a pint of beer by 20p, citing it as an example of how leaving the customs union can benefit us.

1. We haven’t left CU
B. There is no import duty on beer
iii) The beer they’ve reduced the price on is Ruddles, a Greene King ale made here
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by CJ+ @ Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:18 pm

square) Ruddles is shit anyway.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by tanglerat @ Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:43 pm

I've just had to defend you, my British chums, in a conversation with a fairly intelligent and well informed friend.

He described your country as now being a tinpot dictatorship banana republic. I had to correct him by pointing out you're not yet a republic as long as you have your monarchy.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Dirk @ Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:54 pm

Hardly a dictatorship as our govt can't actually do anything they want.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Il Duce @ Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:06 pm

tanglerat wrote:I've just had to defend you, my British chums, in a conversation with a fairly intelligent and well informed friend.

He described your country as now being a tinpot dictatorship banana republic. I had to correct him by pointing out you're not yet a republic as long as you have your monarchy.


They don't have any bananas.
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Re: Some Brexit

Post by Careless Whisperer @ Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:20 pm

Dirk wrote:Hardly a dictatorship as our govt can't actually do anything they want.

Good point, well made.
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