Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

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Re: Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

Post by Il Duce @ Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:46 am

Pigeon wrote:To make a woodruff key all you need is a wee bit of steel and a file, so that's a good place to start. It's also a useful skill because little tiny woodruff keys are always getting lost.


Yes. But. They cost pennies, are readily available, will fit perfectly and will arrive before I manage to make one.
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Re: Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

Post by Il Duce @ Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:15 am

Bugger all done yesterday. Woodruf keys arrived but the nut and washer didn't so i couldn't close the engine cases.
I notice that the crank and piston were in the wrong half of the casing so I removed it and refitted it correctly. No pictures because there was nothing to see.
I was going to fit the centre stand just for something to do but there were no bolts. I am beginning to hate the dick that sold me this. I have spare heads, cylinders, carbs, brake drums but no bloody bolts for the stand. Oh and one of the nuts used to tighten down the head is missing. FFS!

Anyway I painted the centre stand legs on the orange one just for something to do.

I've ordered lots of bits today so Thursday should be a more constructive afternoon.
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Re: Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

Post by Il Duce @ Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:40 am

Unfortunately I shall have to break my no swear policy in this post. Also I'm sorry but no photos as I got fvck all done.

Constructive Thursday my fvcking arse!
First the engine bolts didn't arrive in time so I used the old bolts to pull the engine halves together and it worked fine. I'll just replace all of the old bolts when the new one arrives. That was the only good bit.

With the cases joined I thought I'd fit the clutch that I'd rebuilt. Hmmm doesn't seem to fit. Let me see. Ah yes, the clutch plates have 8 lugs around the outer edge and the clutch basket has 6 spaces. The fvckwit bought the wrong clutch plates so i went online and ordered the right set which will need soaking in oil for 2 days before rebuilding. Arseshit! I then broke my clutch compressing tool so I had to make one out of a bolt and washers and metal plate.

Ok. Nothing else to do so I'll fit the fuel tap into the tank. Part code is right on the bag but the fvcker inside is the wrong one- too small. The tw@t didn't check it when he bought it ffs! Back online and order the correct tap. AND the petrol pipe. AND a new petrol cap assembly. Cvntshit!

Right. At least the bolts arrived for the centre stand. And they were the right ones. I put the clamps on and find out that the stand is 10mm diameter and the clamps and rubber feet are for the 20mm stand. The stupid cnut bought the wrong stand. I've never even seen a 10mm stand- how did he manage that? Back online and order the right stand... and the clip to hold the spring ffs!

I have a feeling that this isn't the last time fvck all will go right.

Anyway at least it gave you something to read. Sorry again for no photos. I'll do some on Sunday.
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Re: Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

Post by manfromdelmonte @ Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:58 am

The worst part of building anything is having the wrong parts. Or the wrong tools. Or stuck bolts. Or the cold. The rest of it is great though.
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Re: Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

Post by Il Duce @ Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:37 am

manfromdelmonte wrote:The worst part of building anything is having the wrong parts. Or the wrong tools. Or stuck bolts. Or the cold. The rest of it is great though.


I have the tools. It's all disassembled so no stuck bolts. I don't work when it's too cold.

This explains why the god of rebuilds has shat on me with wrong parts.
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Re: Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

Post by tanglerat @ Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:51 am

Il Duce wrote:...

With the cases joined I thought I'd fit the clutch that I'd rebuilt. Hmmm doesn't seem to fit. Let me see. Ah yes, the clutch plates have 8 lugs around the outer edge and the clutch basket has 6 spaces. The fvckwit bought the wrong clutch plates so i went online and ordered the right set which will need soaking in oil for 2 days before rebuilding. Arseshit! I then broke my clutch compressing tool so I had to make one out of a bolt and washers and metal plate.


See? See? Now we're talking. Now you're restro-ing! You're fabricating your own tools now!

This shit just keeps on getting better and better.
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Re: Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

Post by Il Duce @ Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:14 am

tanglerat wrote:
Il Duce wrote:...

With the cases joined I thought I'd fit the clutch that I'd rebuilt. Hmmm doesn't seem to fit. Let me see. Ah yes, the clutch plates have 8 lugs around the outer edge and the clutch basket has 6 spaces. The fvckwit bought the wrong clutch plates so i went online and ordered the right set which will need soaking in oil for 2 days before rebuilding. Arseshit! I then broke my clutch compressing tool so I had to make one out of a bolt and washers and metal plate.


See? See? Now we're talking. Now you're restro-ing! You're fabricating your own tools now!

This shit just keeps on getting better and better.


I have to admit that when I made it and it worked, I was particularly pleased.
I shall take a photo of it and show you all. Pigeon will be proud of me.
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Re: Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

Post by Il Duce @ Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:57 am

Sunday started badly. I offered to fit my a new rear wiper blade on her Astra. The arm would not lift up enough to let me fit the new one. Couldn't remove the whole arm as the steel bolt was fused to the alloy thread. Gave up.
Went to fix her tap and instead of just the tap insert undoing the whole tap body moved. Retightened and gave up.

Time to do something that will work.
Centre stand and feet fitted no problem

Image

Oh heres my clutch compressor I made:
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The engine bolts didn't arrive so I thought balls to it. I removed all 12 bolts, greased them, added a new washer and locking washer and the tightened and torqued each one. Very satisfying, click, click goes the torque spanner.
Just need the clutch plates to arrive and then I can soak them in oil for a day, rebuild it and refit it.
Then I can close the case and degrease it and buff it with a steel brush on a drill.

Here it is now unfortunately a bit blurred but you get the idea.

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I've been checking through the pile of parts and have spotted lots of little things missing which I've ordered so I should have loads to do on Thursday with an update on Friday.
IF they arrive on time.
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Re: Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

Post by DI Burnside @ Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:43 am

Is this going to be a problem ?

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Re: Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

Post by Pigeon @ Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:46 pm

Il Duce wrote:instead of just the tap insert undoing the whole tap body moved.


They always do that... How easy it is to stop it happening depends on how grabable the spout is.

Il Duce wrote:Oh heres my clutch compressor I made:


:thumbup:

DI Burnside wrote:Is this going to be a problem ?


It shouldn't be, it's only holding a cover on, it doesn't have to make a good seal or take any load, so the remaining bolts ought to be enough. I also think it won't be the only such thing ID comes across.
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Re: Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

Post by Il Duce @ Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:25 pm

As Pige said, it's not a problem.
Most of the rest of the parts are either refurbished or new ... or missing so I don't expect any dramas.

There. That's put a fvcking curse on it now.
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Re: Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

Post by Deuteronomy @ Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:16 pm

When you say greased the bolts, is that the shanks or the threads?

I ask because if the torque figures for the bolts are not specified as greased threads and you've greased them, they're probably now too tight.
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Re: Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

Post by S1K @ Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:20 pm

New bolts might also have come with some Loctite on them.
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Re: Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

Post by Il Duce @ Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:22 pm

Deuteronomy wrote:When you say greased the bolts, is that the shanks or the threads?

I ask because if the torque figures for the bolts are not specified as greased threads and you've greased them, they're probably now too tight.


Threads as advised by the keenos on the forums.
It's only 11ft.lbs anyway. As they said "you're just trying to stop the oil leaking out- it's not a fvcking submarine"
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Re: Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

Post by Il Duce @ Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:24 pm

S1K wrote:New bolts might also have come with some Loctite on them.


No. Just a washer, spring washer and a normal nut
Last edited by Il Duce on Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

Post by Il Duce @ Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:25 am

Box of parts arrived yesterday. Floor runner kit, shock top mount, headlamp ring plus another package with the new clutch plates and fuel tap. Hopefully I should be able to get some of it fitted and maybe close the engine completely and then give it a clean.
Knowing my luck it will all go titsup but at least it makes good reading for you.

Image
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Re: Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

Post by Il Duce @ Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:21 am

Not a bad afternoons work.

First of all I rebuilt the clutch with a new uprated spring and the correct clutch plates:
I've just noticed that this is a photo of the old plates- bum!
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Then it was fitted in the clutch basket. An utter bastard of a job as you have to put a woodruff key in the shaft and hope it doesn't fall inside the engine- which would mean splitting the cases again.

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Then I fitted the gasket
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And finally replace the clutch cover carefully torquing all the bolts.
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Then I had brain fade. I tried moving the kickstarter but it wouldn't move.
Shit! Remove the clutch cover again. Engine is moving but the kickstart seems jammed. Crazy?
Then I realised it was in gear. Move the gear selector. Kickstart moves. What a knobhead.
Back on with the clutch cover and re-torque.

Cleaned up the head ready for a refit:
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Unfortunately as I was positioning the piston rings one of the little bastards snapped. Onto ebay for another order but luckily only £12. Probably needed changing anyway.

Ok so on with the floorboard runners. The thick shit who powder coated it failed to remove two bolts which were now powder coated and seized:

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So I drilled out the centres very carefully and off they came. A bloody miracle!
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On the first runner I fitted all the bolts loosely then tightened them all.
Do 1 at a time and you're buggered as you get to the last one and the holes won't line up.
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Slide the rubber into the groove which was super easy and didn't even need lube and hey presto! Job done.
Only 3 more to do! But I was too tired by then so I went in for a beer.
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Apologies for the blurred photos but in some it just wouldn't focus on the bit I wanted. (the fvcked bolts)
On the later ones I was just shaking from being cold.

So on Sunday I'll hopefully fit the rest of the running boards and maybe the new fuel tap inside the tank.
Last edited by Il Duce on Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

Post by Il Duce @ Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:06 am

Sunday was quite constructive. I fitted the number plate holder.
Yes I made sure the screws were all matching for you weirdos

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Then the rear shock
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And the seat helmet hook
It IS centred it's just the seat seam that isn't.
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Then finished fitting the floor runners
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Just the centre mat to fit now to finish that bit.

No real disasters apart from I'd ordered the wrong bottom bolt for the shock (Another part for "stock") and I didn't have a gasket for the rear hub so couldn't fit the rear hub.

More parts on order so hopefully should be able to more on Thursday.
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Re: Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

Post by Deuteronomy @ Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:28 pm

Looking good ID
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Re: Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

Post by Il Duce @ Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:00 pm

Deuteronomy wrote:Looking good ID


Ta. Starting to take shape now.
It's such a pisser being held up because of a missing bolt or tiny part that the previous idiot failed to put safe.
I hope his scooter falls of its stand.
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Re: Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

Post by Il Duce @ Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:40 pm

Not a bad day. Went for a ride on the orange one and after putting some petrol in it, the "missing" that happened last time didn't happen. Engine wouldn't really rev out the same way as if it was stopped and in neutral though. Maybe it might need rejetting. Anything else I should consider?

Ok, on with the red bastard.
New piston rings arrived. In the restoration manual it says to mark the piston where the retaining lump is in the groove so you can make sure the ends of the ring line up with it. Yes top one fitted fine and the piston slipped over it but the bottom ring one wouldn't go. After careful examination the lumps are in different places in each groove and the book said shit all about it. Anyway, gasket on and head goes on but the bolts haven't arrived so I can close it completely. Also the exhaust manifold port needs two threaded studs which are.... yes.... missing. On to ebay and they got ordered.


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Also fitted the brake backplate and the gasket I'd been waiting for.
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At least the bell-end made a good photographic record of the wiring which allowed me the thread the different parts of the loom to where they should go.

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Then I fitted the mudguard, after drilling a different hole for the side bolt.
I'll get a bigger washer that should cover the gap of the other hole.
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I was going to fit the steering column until I realised that threading the clutch/brake/throttle cables would then be a nightmare so i carried on with that.

Here's where they go in the top
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They go all the way down the front legshield, around the bend and come out of its arse.
It's a bastard of a job.
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It was at this point that I discovered that although I had many cable inners, I didn't have the right amount of cable sleeves.
Onto ebay and ordered a full set as it was cheaper.
On the floor in the photo you can see the brake pedal with the switch fitted and the cable ready to fit.
Of course I can't fit it because there is one captive nut needed and guess what? It's missing. Bastard.
Ebay. Order.

The speedo cable is present but there is some sort of worm drive missing which would make it work.
There are many on offer and I just need to work out which one I need. Off to the forums!

Rear shock bolt arrived and fitted.
More posts on Monday if the parts arrive on Saturday
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Re: Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

Post by minimoog @ Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:11 pm

Good stuff!
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Re: Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

Post by Il Duce @ Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:16 pm

Anyone any ideas on why it doesn't rev as high when driving as when in neutral?
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Re: Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

Post by Aesgarth @ Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:42 pm

Probably down to excessive load. Have you tried it with a smaller driver?


Eta: good thread. I'm enjoying it.
Last edited by Aesgarth on Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

Post by Il Duce @ Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:58 pm

Aesgarth wrote:Probably down to excessive load. Have you tried it with a smaller driver?


Eta: good thread. I'm enjoying it.

Ta.
I don't think that's the problem as I weigh only 62kg, or in english, about half of you.
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Re: Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

Post by Käsemeister @ Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:44 pm

Christ are you smaller than DaTho?
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Re: Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

Post by Deuteronomy @ Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:44 pm

It'll be down to load - have you checked the colour of the spark plug after a decent run?

(To check the mixture)
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Re: Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

Post by Il Duce @ Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:15 pm

Deuteronomy wrote:It'll be down to load - have you checked the colour of the spark plug after a decent run?

(To check the mixture)



Ah good idea.
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Re: Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

Post by Pigeon @ Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:03 pm

But be sure beforehand that it is the right plug it's got fitted, because if the heat rating's wrong so will the result be.

Anyway without looking at the plug or even hearing it run I'm going to say it's running rich. And there probably isn't anything actually wrong with it as such. Basically a case of taking the carb to bits and making sure the float level is correct and there aren't any bits of shit in it and anything that can be adjusted or tweaked or measured is set exactly as the book says it should be. The needle height is one thing that might have been fcuked about with.

Things hardly ever genuinely need re-jetting - it's something people come out with because it makes them sound knowledgeable, or they think it does. Jets don't wear. (Although they are easily damaged by ham-fisted cleaning with metallic objects, and I have known someone take a Black & Decker to the main jet in a misguided attempt to make it go faster.)

Also if there's a kit of seals and things it's worth fitting all new ones just for jolly wouldn't you, and it won't be expensive.

New air filter, of course, and also check what the exhaust is like inside, which is difficult because you can't see most of it. If the exhaust is choked with carbon the scavenging won't work properly and that won't help at all. The traditional method of dealing with a choked exhaust is to plug up one end and fill it with hot concentrated caustic soda and leave it to soak for a few days, but it doesn't always work very well and a new exhaust is a good idea if there's any doubt.

While you're at it give it new points and condenser and make sure the ignition timing is correctly set. Not uncommon for things that look like carby things to actually be ignitiony things, and a very easy possibility to eliminate.

With it being a two-stroke you don't have the problem of gradual wear in valve train components making the book settings gradually become less than ideal, so the tweak-this-twiddle-that approach basically just wastes time; setting it up as close as possible to how it says it should be really ought to be all that's needed, unless something very weird is fcuked or has been changed to be non-standard.
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Re: Vespa 125 Nuova Restoration

Post by Il Duce @ Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:19 am

Thanks Pigeon, some good points there.

Carb was rebuilt when it was in the workshop and had new seals so should all be good.
New air filter was fitted.
I presume they did the timing then too because the engine was out and stripped.
Exhaust has been de-coked by me using caustic soda.

I checked the plug last night. It was mid to darkish brown which would indicate slightly rich
but could also mean the plug is too cool. It was a 7 and it should be a 6 (a hotter plug for short journeys) so I've popped in a 6
and when it stops raining I'll take it for a run and then check the plug again.
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