Tell me about motorbikes

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Re: Tell me about motorbikes

Post by Damien Thorn @ Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:54 am

I'm along the lines of Dis here. When the car pulled out when I was virtually right there I just thought "oh, you're surely not doing that now!", but there wasn't space or time enough to completely avoid it. I managed to not go over the bonnet, but glanced off the driver's door instead. I don't really know if it was that or the bike landing on me that gave me all the broken bits.

Tbh i think I'm lucky. I managed to alleviate what could have been a nastier impact, and my gear kept all my gorgeous skin intact and around the outside of me rather than spread down the road. The bike's probably knackered, but I really couldn't care less, frankly.

It's easy to think that it wouldn't have happened if I hadn't been filtering, because that's completely true - but equally a bit of common sense and decent observation works wonders and I have and will continue to filter safely when it's appropriate.

More than anything it's a lesson to up observation skills further still. Not just for drivers, but for me too as it's my neck (and ribs, and lung, etc).

I'm quite sanguine about it all really. I'm essentially fine, with no lasting damage. Other people get worse, and get worse from innocent pastimes that are much less cool than riding a motorbike. I will get another bike, eventually, but that'll be months away now because fracture recuperation and then winter.

Oh well!
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Re: Tell me about motorbikes

Post by Damien Thorn @ Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:58 am

Dirk wrote:Please don't thick this is a criticism of Datho, and I know all bikes do it and the car definitely should have seen him.

But from Dathos description of the accident wasn't he actually breaking the highway code rule about overtaking on the approach to a junction? SO i assumed insurance would find them both partially to blame so would treat it as a knock for knock?
Didn't see this before I posted, but the answer is I don't know. I was looking at the stationary traffic for turn signals, and we hadn't actually got to the junction - but then everything happened.

I might need to talk to the police at some point, but so far all I've had was a quick visit from a WPC while I was in a&e.

Again, not worrying about it at this stage.
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Re: Tell me about motorbikes

Post by ttwiggy @ Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:02 pm

So sorry to hear what's happened to you Datho. I'd noticed a lot of traffic on this thread but assumed it was just talking about bike stuff.

I'd love a bike, but when I hear about things like this the Triumph catalogue gets put back in the drawer again! It was bad enough when I had a Caterham, being sure that nobody could see me and any impact would mean serious injury.

In terms of the 'issues' surrounding filtering, while I agree that the standard of driving is awful these days, the massive A, B and C pillars in modern cars really don't help. The rear and 3/4 visibility from my Jeep is atrocious for instance.
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Re: Tell me about motorbikes

Post by span @ Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:04 pm

Thanks both for forgiving explanations. I knew as I was writing that I'm commenting as a person who has thought very little about a subject, and banning things you haven't thought much about before is rarely the way to go.

There's plenty of bad driving and biking on our local roads. And I used to think it was far worse than the UK but these days, when I go back I don't notice any difference, so perhaps UK's levels have got worse. (although things have got a bit better here, too)

And hopefully it goes without saying but it didn't even go through my head that Damien shouldn't have been doing what he did. I think it's more a skewed idea of the danger of some things on my part (even if it's not the fault of the person hurt), based on lack of experience.

Blimey, is this like people telling girls (motorcyclists) not to go out drinking (filtering) in case a motorist (man) (hang on, other way around) assaults them (hits them)?! Sorry everyone I've been an awful apologist!!
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Re: Tell me about motorbikes

Post by Aesgarth @ Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:11 pm

span wrote:I knew as I was writing that I'm commenting as a person who has thought very little about a subject, and banning things you haven't thought much about before is rarely the way to go.

This is a bloody good point which should be considered far more frequently than it is, IMO.
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Re: Tell me about motorbikes

Post by Deuteronomy @ Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:14 pm

span wrote:Thanks both for forgiving explanations. I knew as I was writing that I'm commenting as a person who has thought very little about a subject, and banning things you haven't thought much about before is rarely the way to go.

There's plenty of bad driving and biking on our local roads. And I used to think it was far worse than the UK but these days, when I go back I don't notice any difference, so perhaps UK's levels have got worse. (although things have got a bit better here, too)

And hopefully it goes without saying but it didn't even go through my head that Damien shouldn't have been doing what he did. I think it's more a skewed idea of the danger of some things on my part (even if it's not the fault of the person hurt), based on lack of experience.

Blimey, is this like people telling girls (motorcyclists) not to go out drinking (filtering) in case a motorist (man) (hang on, other way around) assaults them (hits them)?! Sorry everyone I've been an awful apologist!!


Not sure what's happening here, but it's easy to blame Span's racism, so I'm going to do that.

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Re: Tell me about motorbikes

Post by Disastrous @ Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:18 pm

span wrote:
Blimey, is this like people telling girls (motorcyclists) not to go out drinking (filtering) in case a motorist (man) (hang on, other way around) assaults them (hits them)?! Sorry everyone I've been an awful apologist!!



Laugh! TBH, if Datho insists on dressing like that on his bike, is it any wonder that he gets Filteraped??
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Re: Tell me about motorbikes

Post by span @ Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:19 pm

Deuteronomy wrote:
span wrote:Thanks both for forgiving explanations. I knew as I was writing that I'm commenting as a person who has thought very little about a subject, and banning things you haven't thought much about before is rarely the way to go.

There's plenty of bad driving and biking on our local roads. And I used to think it was far worse than the UK but these days, when I go back I don't notice any difference, so perhaps UK's levels have got worse. (although things have got a bit better here, too)

And hopefully it goes without saying but it didn't even go through my head that Damien shouldn't have been doing what he did. I think it's more a skewed idea of the danger of some things on my part (even if it's not the fault of the person hurt), based on lack of experience.

Blimey, is this like people telling girls (motorcyclists) not to go out drinking (filtering) in case a motorist (man) (hang on, other way around) assaults them (hits them)?! Sorry everyone I've been an awful apologist!!


Not sure what's happening here, but it's easy to blame Span's racism, so I'm going to do that.

Classic Span!

Well I think you can infer my thoughts on POC filtering. And if that makes me racist!!!
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Re: Tell me about motorbikes

Post by CJ+ @ Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:22 pm

I am going to be that guy and point out that irrespective of whether Damo should or shouldn't have been filtering at that exact point in time, as a car driver it absolutely behoves you to look in your fcuking mirrors every time you could conceivably turn across the path of another road user, and that goes double if not triple when you're stationary, and things, like a Damo forex, can arrive next to you with startling speed.

You can't just go around driving into things and people and then go all adenoidally "well actually I think you'll find that I had priority >snrrrrk<" as if that means everything's ok.

Also, in the event of liability being unclear, Dirk, it'll probably go 50-50 rather than knockforknock, because that's what they do in these newfangled times.
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Re: Tell me about motorbikes

Post by stuart @ Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:37 pm

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Re: Tell me about motorbikes

Post by Damien Thorn @ Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:40 pm

Disastrous wrote:
Tokyo Sexwale wrote:
span wrote:
Tokyo Sexwale wrote:Damo any news on how Mrs T reacted? Hope the kids aren’t too worried about you.

Tokes, has paramedicking made you feel any differently about motorbikes? Seeing things like what happened to poor Damo, out of his control, and that I presume affect motorcyclists disproportionately.

Kind of span. It’s made me a more cautious driver/rider but also in my experience so far I’ve seen far more trauma from horse accidents, car vs car, and ladder climbing and now have an almost fatalistic acceptance that I’ll get cancer, copd, Parkinson’s, dementia or some other terrible life limiting condition that I almost think why not?

So yes and no but also worried about cycling, running, eating, drinking and bending over too quickly.



Seconded.

I'm very much of the opinion that I will probably die of something eventually, so I might as well do cool stuff in the meantime and if I die from that instead, so what?

It's always nasty when people hurt themselves/die doing things but IMO it's not as sad as when they hurt themselves/die *not* doing things.

If you worried about it, you'd just do nothing I reckon. My mum's turned into a worrier in her old age and it's a massively limiting mindset.


Damien Thorn wrote: Other people get worse, and get worse from innocent pastimes that are much less cool than riding a motorbike.


Just as a bit of context here, related to these comments:

When I was in a&e/recuss on Wednesday I felt both very lucky and a bit of an impostor. Obviously I was hurt and in the right place, but then a lady was brought in to the cubicle opposite me who looked in a dreadful state. She was accompanied by police, and immediately the doctors and nurses were swarming around her. She'd been stabbed.

Awful.

And then another lady was brought in to the cubicle next to me, an older lady by the sound of it, who from what I could eavesdrop had fallen down her stairs on her face. At some point I heard one of the medical staff debating whether the little bits they'd found when the paramedics got to her were bone shards or broken teeth.

Awful.

And even when I had my broken shoulder jammed behind my head while the doctor was hacking away to get the lung drain tube between two broken ribs, I felt I was the lucky one.
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Re: Tell me about motorbikes

Post by Damien Thorn @ Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:42 pm

And also also, the bloke in the bed next to me here in the ward is in with broken ribs, but he just fell off a ladder in his garden.

He's broken two ribs, and apparently a bloke he talked to elsewhere in the hospital had broken three. He was quite crestfallen when I said I'd broken six.

#winning
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Re: Tell me about motorbikes

Post by Dirk @ Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:53 pm

CJ+ wrote:I am going to be that guy and point out that irrespective of whether Damo should or shouldn't have been filtering at that exact point in time, as a car driver it absolutely behoves you to look in your fcuking mirrors every time you could conceivably turn across the path of another road user, and that goes double if not triple when you're stationary, and things, like a Damo forex, can arrive next to you with startling speed.

You can't just go around driving into things and people and then go all adenoidally "well actually I think you'll find that I had priority >snrrrrk<" as if that means everything's ok.

Also, in the event of liability being unclear, Dirk, it'll probably go 50-50 rather than knockforknock, because that's what they do in these newfangled times.

50-50 is what I meant. And if you actually read what I wrote I explicitly said that the driver should have seen him ffs

If a black man rides a motorbike, does Span know that he is there?
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Re: Tell me about motorbikes

Post by Tokyo Sexwale @ Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:15 pm

Damien Thorn wrote:I'm along the lines of Dis here. When the car pulled out when I was virtually right there I just thought "oh, you're surely not doing that now!", but there wasn't space or time enough to completely avoid it. I managed to not go over the bonnet, but glanced off the driver's door instead. I don't really know if it was that or the bike landing on me that gave me all the broken bits.

Tbh i think I'm lucky. I managed to alleviate what could have been a nastier impact, and my gear kept all my gorgeous skin intact and around the outside of me rather than spread down the road. The bike's probably knackered, but I really couldn't care less, frankly.

It's easy to think that it wouldn't have happened if I hadn't been filtering, because that's completely true - but equally a bit of common sense and decent observation works wonders and I have and will continue to filter safely when it's appropriate.

More than anything it's a lesson to up observation skills further still. Not just for drivers, but for me too as it's my neck (and ribs, and lung, etc).

I'm quite sanguine about it all really. I'm essentially fine, with no lasting damage. Other people get worse, and get worse from innocent pastimes that are much less cool than riding a motorbike. I will get another bike, eventually, but that'll be months away now because fracture recuperation and then winter.

Oh well!

I think this is the salient point - that the onus is on the rider to minimize risk of injury. I’ve had the exact same accident whilst riding but a few more years experience taught me to filter much slower than I used to and be utterly paranoid. I still came off but was unhurt save for a bad back - had that happened to me a few years back I’d have been going 5 or 10 mph faster and probably would have been more seriously hurt. Filtering carries a higher risk than normal riding but That doesn’t necessarily make it dangerous.
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Re: Tell me about motorbikes

Post by Monty @ Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:16 pm

No idea of any blame in this one, and not for me to point any fingers anyway.
But.
It does sound as if the car driver just didn't see Damo. Whether that's because they didn't a) look in their wing mirror(s) or b) look over their right shoulder before pulling out. At a guess I'd say the latter. But then as it's a car driver...more than likely both! <tar liberally splashed about with brush>
I assume he was in the driver's blind spot (if indeed they looked properly), which a look over the shoulder should prevent.

I had similar happen to me once. Luckily, I was far enough past the (I think) Range Rover so that when he pulled out of the traffic queue into a drive I didn't realise was there, I managed to pull myself & the bike...just...to the right as his front bumper veered out towards my back wheel...and missed...by God knows how little!
I would've been doing less than 20 mph as I was a complete poof when it came to swift filtering.

I just treat other road users as blind cnuts despite not motorbiking (apart from cycling quite a lot now) any more and on looking back at the 000's of miles I did commuting really can't believe how I managed to not have more than a few incidents.

That sixth sense is developed with road use...and not just from riding a bike. Car drivers tend not to bother as they are surrounded by metal...I guess.
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Re: Tell me about motorbikes

Post by S1K @ Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:34 pm

What pisses me right off is dickheads who filter on the left, down the gutter, either on pushbikes or motorcycles. Yesterday there was some bellend on one of these...

560E14F6-F54D-4A8F-B996-7FE7658800A1.jpeg
560E14F6-F54D-4A8F-B996-7FE7658800A1.jpeg (39.86 KiB) Viewed 235 times


...with a Czech number plate on it who was riding as if he positively wanted to be killed.
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Re: Tell me about motorbikes

Post by Turntable @ Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:28 pm

Missed this. Sorry to hear about this Datho.
My 'big' accident ended with much milder injuries than yours but nevertheless I feel your trauma.

Get well soon
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Re: Tell me about motorbikes

Post by Turntable @ Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:33 pm

I remember having several minimal low speed knocks in London as a result of people not looking for filtering bikes.
As tokes suggests, after each one the thing I learned was that it doesn't really matter whose fault it is. It is a 100% fact that there are many road users who are just either very crap drivers, or get distracted, or whatever that in riding a lot you are facing an inevitability.
The only solution to this is make sure you expect every single other road user to do it, so that you are always either going so slowly that it will not matter, or you are ready to avoid them
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Re: Tell me about motorbikes

Post by Damien Thorn @ Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:21 pm

This is my takeaway from the whole thing TT. I've always assumed people didn't look but now I'll rely in them not looking.

Lucky I'm only minimally broken, is all.
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Re: Tell me about motorbikes

Post by HappyGoLucky @ Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:52 am

FFS DaTho! You were my case in point in convincing MrsH that it would be positively fine for me to get another bike, and then you go and do this!

Last time I was in that place was when we lived in KL back in '99, I'd actually got to trying out Ducatis and Triumphs and then my best buddy came off his Guzzi at speed and made an awful mess of himself. Like you, he did the whole collapsed lung thing and broke 7* ribs, his collar bone and shattered his wrist.

I hope your broken bits don't hurt too much, and you get home soon. Ribs are a right cnut so I can't imagine the added collapsed lung bit helps much.

* Seven, not just six... Sorry.
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Re: Tell me about motorbikes

Post by Damien Thorn @ Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:53 am

Cheers hgl, and everybody else too, for the kind wishes.

I'm being my usual chipper self over this and viewing it as a bit of an inconvenience - "enjoying" being in hospital and having a laugh with the nurses and doctors and the other broken blokes on my ward - but it is also true that broken bones aren't really a laughing matter, and lungs are pretty important to day to day life, and it gets harder to get better from things as you get older (I can see 50 from here remember, easily).

And as I discovered when Mrs Thorn showed me a confidential text from my sister yesterday "Damo's making light of things as usual but I really don't think he understands the extent or severity of his injuries".

(I could imagine "injuries" being said in that kind of twisting, pass/agg tone that siblings or o/h's use when they want to make it quite clear they think something is actually very much your fault in spite of the actual words they've used).



Btw: good effin' grief there are some miserable/grumpy/rude patients in hospital! There are two blokes in private rooms at the end of the ward and virtually all you hear is them demanding things (mostly pain relief or toast!), or complaining that no one's paying attention to them, or actually insulting the nurses.

I genuinely can't believe it. Me and my main ward pals raise our eyebrows in dismay and make woe! faces every time there's an outburst, and sympathise with the nurses when they come to do our obs. Or come to untangle the multitude of wires and tubes I've got caught around my table again, so I can shuffle bravely to the toilet.
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Re: Tell me about motorbikes

Post by Damien Thorn @ Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:54 am

Also: seven ribs! Git.
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Re: Tell me about motorbikes

Post by Paul H @ Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:54 am

Get well soon, if not sooner.

On the filtering debate...
There comes a point where filtering ends and queue jumping like a tw@t begins. It varies but once traffic is generally stationary you are not filtering, you are being an anti-social dick. Your choice of transport does not give you the right to drive to the head of the queue.
/2p

And, again, get well soon.
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Re: Tell me about motorbikes

Post by Tokyo Sexwale @ Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:29 am

Paul H wrote:Get well soon, if not sooner.

On the filtering debate...
There comes a point where filtering ends and queue jumping like a tw@t begins. It varies but once traffic is generally stationary you are not filtering, you are being an anti-social dick. Your choice of transport does not give you the right to drive to the head of the queue.
/2p

And, again, get well soon.

Disagree with this a lot. If your vehicle can get to the front of a queue and not hold
People up when traffic moves again, then yes, you should (and do) have the right to do it. To say otherwise just smacks of envy.
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Re: Tell me about motorbikes

Post by CJ+ @ Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:49 am

Paul H wrote:Get well soon, if not sooner.

On the filtering debate...
There comes a point where filtering ends and queue jumping like a tw@t begins. It varies but once traffic is generally stationary you are not filtering, you are being an anti-social dick. Your choice of transport does not give you the right to drive to the head of the queue.

Speaking as a driver who has never so much as ridden pillion, my view is the exact opposite. It's when motorbikerists "filter" in traffic moving at low but serviceable speeds (e.g. 30 mph) that it stops being "filtering" and starts being "a bit of a tw@t".

If traffic is stationary or very slow, then I absolutely think that motorcyclists should drive up to the front of the queue.

>high fives biker bros, and checks mirrors again<
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Re: Tell me about motorbikes

Post by Disastrous @ Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:03 am

Tokyo Sexwale wrote:
Paul H wrote:Get well soon, if not sooner.

On the filtering debate...
There comes a point where filtering ends and queue jumping like a tw@t begins. It varies but once traffic is generally stationary you are not filtering, you are being an anti-social dick. Your choice of transport does not give you the right to drive to the head of the queue.
/2p

And, again, get well soon.

Disagree with this a lot. If your vehicle can get to the front of a queue and not hold
People up when traffic moves again, then yes, you should (and do) have the right to do it. To say otherwise just smacks of envy.



Seconded. And worth noting you actually fail your bike test for not doing exactly what you describe, if the opportunity presents itself. Your choice of transport absolutely does give you the right to go to the head of the queue.

I’m guessing you don’t like merge in turns either?
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Re: Tell me about motorbikes

Post by manfromdelmonte @ Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:51 am

Paul H wrote:Get well soon, if not sooner.

On the filtering debate...
There comes a point where filtering ends and queue jumping like a tw@t begins. It varies but once traffic is generally stationary you are not filtering, you are being an anti-social dick. Your choice of transport does not give you the right to drive to the head of the queue.
/2p

And, again, get well soon.


What about on a push bike? Should you wait at the back of the queue?

What if you're walking on the pavement next to a queue of stationary traffic. If walking is your choice of transport should you just stand still on the pavement and creep along in time with the cars?
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Re: Tell me about motorbikes

Post by Dirk @ Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:38 pm

Paul H wrote:Get well soon, if not sooner.

On the filtering debate...
There comes a point where filtering ends and queue jumping like a tw@t begins. It varies but once traffic is generally stationary you are not filtering, you are being an anti-social dick. Your choice of transport does not give you the right to drive to the head of the queue.
/2p.

Do you get upset if a car overtakes you on a road other than a dual carriageway?

I ask because I have noticed in the last few years an increase in drivers who seem to react very badly to being overtaken on single carriageways. I talked to a friend about it the other day and he had too.
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Re: Tell me about motorbikes

Post by Clown Ice Skater #4 @ Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:35 pm

Paul H wrote:Your choice of transport does not give you the right to drive to the head of the queue.


But it’s not a queue. Applying the concept of a queuing system to traffic driving on the road is completely flawed and the reason why you get these idiots who go batshit if anyone passes them. There’s no prize for being at the front of a long line of traffic and no conceivable advantage, unless you consider shaving 10 seconds off your journey vital to your mental wellbeing.
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Re: Tell me about motorbikes

Post by thekungfury @ Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:46 pm

I hate it when a train passes me. Why can’t they queue like the rest of us?
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