Vespa 125 Banana.

Two wheels good.

Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:44 am

As you may or may not know I bought this Vespa.

Image

I was supposed to have been kitted but the owner didn't know what had been done as the previous owner didn't tell him.
I presumed it must have been a fairly good upgrade as he'd had an expensive paint job, fitted a £150 speedo, sportish pipe, shocks and a lightened flywheel. Nobody would fit those without upgrading the head and piston. (I hope!)

I took it out for a blast yesterday and, whilst nippy, it seemed to run out of steam at the top end of the revs, as if it needed more fuel or was restricted by the exhaust. My original plan was to run it for a few months to check it all works and if there were no problems then ship it over to Italy in the Spring. I consulted a forum and suggested re-jetting the carb and/or putting a better pipe an/or carb on it. The general consensus of opinion was that I really should drop the engine and see exactly what I've got before I piss money on a carb/jetting/pipe. Not a big job but I'm sure as I didn't build it there are going to be a shitload of problems that will no doubt entertain all of you hence this new thread.


Before I took it out I added a few things. There's the black edging around the frame and a black headlight rim just to tidy things up.
Image

I'm not happy with the suede footbed coverings so I'll probably fit runners- a bastard of a job but hilarious for you lot.
Another problem is that the piece of suede in the centre was covering an unsprayed part of the body. I've no idea why or what was there before but it needs to be covered along with the central tunnel. Ideally I'd like a stick on material. I don't think rubber would be an option because it would have to curve over the shoulders of the hump to cover all of the missing paint and you just know it will never stay stuck down. Any suggestions are welcome but I'd like a link to where I can order it please.

Ok. Let battle commence with the Bastardo Banana!
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Strawman @ Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:48 am

Does the spare tyre act like an airbag if you crash?
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:56 am

Strawman wrote:Does the spare tyre act like an airbag if you crash?


Oh I see. It's going to be like that is it? Can't even bloody wait until I set something on fire!
Bastardo!!!

Anyway it keeps the front down when you hit the power band.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Strawman @ Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:24 pm

Laugh
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by NNK @ Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:44 pm

I imagine the running would be down to fuel/jetting not a restrictive pipe, I cant imagine someone fitting anything other than a sport pipe (but I cant see it and you can).
How flexible does the covering need to be ?
Flooring vinyl ?
Any motor trimmer should be able to do leather/suede/alcantara ?
What about underseal spray ?
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Auslander @ Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:57 pm

.
Last edited by Auslander on Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:35 am

NNK wrote:I imagine the running would be down to fuel/jetting not a restrictive pipe, I cant imagine someone fitting anything other than a sport pipe (but I cant see it and you can).
How flexible does the covering need to be ?
Flooring vinyl ?
Any motor trimmer should be able to do leather/suede/alcantara ?
What about underseal spray ?


It's probably the jetting but it's a small carb to start (19) so I could move up to a 24 but there's no point until I drop the engine (tank off, carb off, 1 rear shock bolt) and have a look under the cowling. Hopefully I'll be able to recognise what head is on there and from that work out what carb/jetting I need. If not I'll post the picture on the Vespa forum and hope someone knows. Failing that it'll be head off and hopefully the maker's name should be underneath.

As for the pipe, it's a Leo Vince. Sporty but not sports if you know what I mean. It's not the weapon of choice when tuning just when you need a bit more noise. Picking a replacement will again depend on the head/piston setup.

Re: the floor- I've contacted a company that makes marine alcantara (alcantara EXO) and asked if I can buy half a meter but they haven't bothered to reply. I think a piece of black that would cover the top of the central tunnel up to near where the fuel tap is should look ok. I'll then put new floor runners on the foot plates... unless the alcantara looks really good then I might just bung that on the foot plates too.

I've also ordered a rattle can of the paint so I might have a go at spraying the un-sprayed part first.
Last edited by Il Duce on Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:37 am

Auslander wrote:Is that Renault Liquid Yellow paint?

As for the performance, aside from “they all do that, sir”, could the exhaust be coked up?


I'm pretty sure it's Liquid Yellow. The scooter really hasn't done enough miles to get coked up, as I said in the post above, it's just not really a performance pipe.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by manfromdelmonte @ Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:16 am

Great stuff, another scooter thread. Can you please film the moment you drop the engine and discover that it has stock head and piston?
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:53 am

manfromdelmonte wrote:Great stuff, another scooter thread. Can you please film the moment you drop the engine and discover that it has stock head and piston?


I doubt that will happen. It has an alloy head so it must have some sort of kit on it as they came cast iron as standard.
Even if it did it wouldn't be a disaster as the price I paid was calculated with just the upgrades I could see.
#iactuallyknowwhatimdoing
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:26 pm

The alcantara people came back to me.
They want £110 for a square meter.

Foff!
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by S1K @ Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:36 pm

Il Duce wrote:#iactuallyknowwhatimdoing

That doesn’t seem like tempting fate at all ID
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:58 pm

S1K wrote:
Il Duce wrote:#iactuallyknowwhatimdoing

That doesn’t seem like tempting fate at all ID


There is no mention of mechanical excellence I was merely referring to the purchase.
<looks up at the gods of cockup>
<smiles>
<gives thumbs up>
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:24 am

Tried to have a look at the head with my endoscope I bought but it wasn't giving up it's secret apart from the head IS alloy which is a good start.

Whilst examining the engine I spotted a drip of oil on the floor. There's a saying that if your Vespa isn't leaking oil then it's empty but all the same this is going to be an engine out and split so I can fit new gaskets and oil seals and maybe bearings.
At the same time I can check the crank, piston and head and upgrade if necessary. I also have a spare set of casings in case something horrible has happened.
Everything else on the scooter seems sound so it'll be a nice project for the Winter and shouldn't take long will provide you lot with hours of cockup laughs.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:24 am

Here we go!

Engine out and partially stripped without any problems. Even my Lidl impact wrench worked beautifully when removeing the rear hub bolt. Yes!
It appears the top end WAS upgraded but only to an ET3 head which makes it slightly faster but it's current performance was all that it was ever going to do.
Here you can see the 3 ports that make it an ET3
Image

Here we can see that it's been leaking from between the head and thermal block and shows there is blowpast along the piston. probably due to the rings or the thermal head being fvcked.
Image
Image

Image

This was the cause of the oil leak and thankfully there are no others. The whole engine case is dry as an old womans clout.
The crankshaft turns beautifully with just the pressure of a little finger so taking both things into consideration I really don't want to split the cases. I'm obviously going to put a new top end on it but a new crank will be dependant on my choice of head: will it give MUCH more performance if I do? My other forum will soon tell me.

That's all for now. Sorry nothing buggered up.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by NNK @ Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:28 pm

Great news, only one minor leak to contend with.
I presume your power info is coming from a proper scooter forum ? Will be interesting to hear what they say.
Presumably there are all sorts of Malossi etc big bore kits & heads available for this model .
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:07 am

NNK wrote:Great news, only one minor leak to contend with.
I presume your power info is coming from a proper scooter forum ? Will be interesting to hear what they say.
Presumably there are all sorts of Malossi etc big bore kits & heads available for this model .


The leak is coming from the top end which I intend to change anyway so no problem really.

I've spoken to a guy who builds quick ones and he reckons I should split the engine cases anyway. Firstly to see if there is anything amiss and secondly I might have to change the gearing: primaries and maybe stick a short 4th gear in there.
Then he's on about expansion exhaust and other bits and all of a sudden this mild upgrade is approaching 2k.

I've spoken to him before and I was looking for just an engine to put in the orange one so I had a big budget. Now I've bought the yellow one I have less to spend on an engine. I think he still thinks I want 20bhp plus and there's no price limit.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by tanglerat @ Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:23 am

More welding pls
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:25 am

tanglerat wrote:More welding pls



http://youtu.be/OVMxr2yrQdM?t=73
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:03 am

Top end has been ordered.
I've gone for a VMC pro cup 3 with matching exhaust and an advanced crank. I've also ordered new primaries and a short 4th gear as recommended.

Image
Image
Image

Other parts I've ordered are a stronger clutch, a (decent) lightened flywheel as the one on there is very average. Also all new gaskets and oil seals.

No welding today sorry.
Last edited by Il Duce on Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:21 am

Found a local bloke who does vapour blasting. So today I won't have to spend 3 hours with various brass brushes cleaning the engine cases.

I have discussed my clutch choice on a forum and the conversation is going like this:

A pro cup will make at least 20bhp and that clutch is rated up to 15bhp
A pro cup won't make over 15bhp but that clutch has carbon discs and will need heavy springs.
Use standard discs with a gl4 oil (higher spec)
Then someone suggests a different engine upgrade, ignoring the fact I've already ordered the Pro Cup.
Then someone says the Newfren one I was interested isn't very good but doesn't suggest an alternative.

Oh FFS!
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Deuteronomy @ Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:57 am

It's a splendid opportunity for you to try all these things ID!
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:11 pm

Deuteronomy wrote:It's a splendid opportunity for you to try all these things ID!


I know what you're trying to do but the clutch is one of those Goldilocks things.
Changing it isn't that big a job as you can do it with the engine in situ so the opportunity for hilarious cockcups is limited.

Don't forget I'm never one to disappoint and those bastard vespas always lull you into a false sense of triumph then Rammage you. Patience!
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by NNK @ Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:44 pm

I popped into my local Vespa shop yesterday -
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20191030_085348[1].jpg (151.86 KiB) Viewed 2144 times

20191030_085356[1].jpg
20191030_085356[1].jpg (149.52 KiB) Viewed 2144 times


No idea of specs/motors but they looked the part.
The blue one had, what looked like, a very nice expansion pipe on
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:55 am

The black one looks like a VBA or VBB, a largeframe in any case so not my area of "expertise". Also it has a twin seat. To me that always is a warning that it's a Vietnam rebuild, especially as it has all the chrome bumpers on it. Whilst there are one or two good restorers over there generally it will be made up of 2 scoots welded together. Indian ones are far worse they can be made of any number of bits.

The blue one is a T5, a smallframe and will probably have a 172 Malossi in it. Probably about 17bhp.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Strawman @ Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:32 pm

Stand loud stand proud, back in the day it was a hrad won thing to own the front page, not so much nowadays Vespa.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by S1K @ Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:35 pm

Strawman wrote:Stand loud stand proud, back in the day it was a hrad won thing to own the front page, not so much nowadays Vespa.

Have you been on the piss Strawms?
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Strawman @ Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:05 am

Yes I was well drunk, slightly hungover now.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:13 am

Strawman wrote:Yes I was well drunk, slightly hungover now.


THAT pissed at 9:32pm ffs! Check you haven't grown a vargynar.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:27 am

Spent a couple of hours in the garage, sorry, workshop and you'll be sad to hear it was very productive.
First I had to change these pair of blind bearings and 2 normal bearings. There was also the outer race of a 2 piece bearing.
These are the new bearings in place. I was expecting a battle and mechanical carnage so thought I'd have time to take more photos but they all came out without a problem. I'll put this down to having the experience and right tools. There is no such thing as luck with Vespas
Image
Image

Next I wanted to change the silent blocks. These are where the engine attaches to the frame and have rubber bushes that are normally fcukers to remove.
I just drilled the rubber and popped them out with a screwdriver. Peasy!
Image
Image

Then just cleaned them up and fitted new racing poly bushes:
Image
They went in so easily I forgot to take photos hence the library photo.

Image
Image
Image

So no shit this week I'm sorry but at least the photos aren't blurred.

Next time I'll be changing the gearchange cruciform- bastard of a job! Ball bearings held in by springs that then fly across the room never to be found again!

I'll have the right tools and experience so it's probably not going to be worth reading.
Only thing to look forward to probably will be if I have to port the engine cases, then it could all go tits up.
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