Vespa 125 Banana.

Two wheels good.

Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by NNK @ Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:17 pm

I shall wish you good luck but I'm sure you don't need it.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by HappyGoLucky @ Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:01 am

Good luck ID!



Anyone else notice how the other fella had neatly matching numbers on the casings too, unlike ID's mix n match bag of horrors?
That sort of thing would annoy the tits off me, but I guess ID is a bit like TT who knows his ideal woman once had a cock, but he's all about who she is today not who he was yesterday.
Anyway, no one else knows. Of course, deep down he knows and like Kylie, he just can't get you out of his head, boy - it's more than he dares to think about...
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:59 am

HappyGoLucky wrote:Good luck ID!



Anyone else notice how the other fella had neatly matching numbers on the casings too, unlike ID's mix n match bag of horrors?
That sort of thing would annoy the tits off me, but I guess ID is a bit like TT who knows his ideal woman once had a cock, but he's all about who she is today not who he was yesterday.
Anyway, no one else knows. Of course, deep down he knows and like Kylie, he just can't get you out of his head, boy - it's more than he dares to think about...


Prepare to use your words as an enema.
The photo of mine shows unmatched casings because I have 4 engine halves: 2 matched pairs.
I was rushing to take the photo and grabbed on wrong half.
As you shall see in the next post I have corrected this minor error.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:03 am

Well that came out better than I thought.
Before you start, I have to check on the other forum if I've removed enough metal before I polish it, although it is much better in the metal than in the photo anyway.


Image

Image
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by manfromdelmonte @ Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:33 am

Great work. I love the precision with which you've drawn your felt tip lines.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:06 am

manfromdelmonte wrote:Great work. I love the precision with which you've drawn your felt tip lines.


Thanks.
Much like your opinion it's not important: they are just a rough guide.
Last edited by Il Duce on Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Aesgarth @ Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:18 am

Good work!

NNK wrote:I shall wish you good luck but I'm sure you don't need it.

Have you read his previous threads? He doesn't need good luck so much as the avoidance of his usual bad luck.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Dirk @ Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:26 am

Aesgarth wrote:Good work!

NNK wrote:I shall wish you good luck but I'm sure you don't need it.

Have you read his previous threads? He doesn't need good luck so much as the avoidance of his usual bad luck.

He doesn't need either of those

He needs a welder
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:51 am

Dirk wrote:
Aesgarth wrote:Good work!

NNK wrote:I shall wish you good luck but I'm sure you don't need it.

Have you read his previous threads? He doesn't need good luck so much as the avoidance of his usual bad luck.

He doesn't need either of those

He needs a welder


You are the sort of uncle that buys his 6 year nephew a large penknife for Christmas.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Dirk @ Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:00 pm

Il Duce wrote:
Dirk wrote:
Aesgarth wrote:Good work!

NNK wrote:I shall wish you good luck but I'm sure you don't need it.

Have you read his previous threads? He doesn't need good luck so much as the avoidance of his usual bad luck.

He doesn't need either of those

He needs a welder


You are the sort of uncle that buys his 6 year nephew a large axe for Christmas.

Corrected
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Pigeon @ Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:42 pm

Cor. That's a courageous cut...

Hey, I've just had a brilliant idea. If you get an old shoebox or something then you can cut out a series of little card templates, starting from size of the "ear" for the port in the gasket and going down to whatever you're determining the size of the bottom with, with holes in the middle so you can stack them all up on a length of wire or something. Then you have a sort of 3D template for the inside of the port, and if you unstack all the little bits of card and turn them upside down and stack them up again you'll have the same template for the port on the other side so you can easily get them both the same.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by S1K @ Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:36 pm

You could use one of those pin shape things you used to get in the Innovations Catalogue

E357B9FD-BBF2-45C1-AA7F-53264A043C82.jpeg
E357B9FD-BBF2-45C1-AA7F-53264A043C82.jpeg (115.59 KiB) Viewed 1085 times
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by HappyGoLucky @ Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:23 am

Il Duce wrote:
HappyGoLucky wrote:Good luck ID!

Anyone else notice how the other fella had neatly matching numbers on the casings too


Prepare to use your words as an enema.
The photo of mine shows unmatched casings because I have 4 engine halves: 2 matched pairs.
I was rushing to take the photo and grabbed on wrong half.
As you shall see in the next post I have corrected this minor error.


No enema needed, I was only making sure that in your rush to progress you did actually port the right pair!

Il Duce wrote:
Dirk wrote:He needs a welder


You are the sort of uncle that buys his 6 year nephew a large penknife for Christmas.


You say that like it's a bad thing ID?
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Sat Dec 21, 2019 9:46 am

Pigeon wrote:Cor. That's a courageous cut...

Hey, I've just had a brilliant idea. If you get an old shoebox or something then you can cut out a series of little card templates, starting from size of the "ear" for the port in the gasket and going down to whatever you're determining the size of the bottom with, with holes in the middle so you can stack them all up on a length of wire or something. Then you have a sort of 3D template for the inside of the port, and if you unstack all the little bits of card and turn them upside down and stack them up again you'll have the same template for the port on the other side so you can easily get them both the same.



Umm great idea but no.

Each half has a different thickness in the wall so using your method could mean holing it.
I'm doing it by eye and using my fingers as a sort of firm joint calipers.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:30 am

I posted my effort on the vespa forum and I was told it was very good and excellent for a first effort.
My Vespaguru, Henri explained that now I had to split the halves, fit the cylinder and using an angled engineers scribe mark where the casing sits proud of the cylinder then grind it away. My scribe arrives today so next Sunday I'll have a go. I've done what he says anyway and felt with my finger and there's about .5mm to come off on about half of each semi circle.

After that he told me to go over the surface with the grinder very lightly to get rid of any tooling marks and then finally with stone attachment to polish it up a bit.

In the meantime I started fitting floor runners. As it has no guide holes I had to clamp them in place for drilling but could only do the outer two as my clamps were too short. New ones arriving today. No pictures sorry.

Also the speedo isn't working. I've traced it back to the actual speedo but fortunately it can run on mechanical drive (which doesn't work) or electronic for which I've ordered the optional lead and wheel sensor. Having looked at the speedo though it appears not to have enough leads coming out of it for all the functions it has (engine temp, rev counter, function switch, speed sensor, fuel level sensor) Hopefully one of the leads can be 2 different things and you just choose to lose one of the functions. Failing that I'll be stripping down the speedo to see why it's jammed. Bastard of a job btw.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Tokyo Sexwale @ Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:33 am

.
Last edited by Tokyo Sexwale on Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:32 am

Fitted the floor runners yesterday. Just the two on the central tunnel to go.

Image
Image

And my engineers scribe came so I finished the casings. They now match perfectly with the head and although the photos make it appear otherwise, they ARE shiny and smooth.

Image

Image


Bad news on the speedo though. It seems I have a MK1 speedo so it only has 3 connections - temp, function button and power supply- nothing for a speed sensor. Bugger!
I can't seem to get the unit apart so I'll be emailing the manufacturer on Monday for advice.
Possibly the square flexi-drive that pushes into the head unit is too thick as it slides in but is then totally stopped from turning by the entrance hole. If it was thinner it would go through the entrance hole and maybe connect with the speedo-needle turner thing inside and it would turn without catching on the entrance hole.
Last edited by Il Duce on Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:34 am

Constructive morning fitting the bearings and one oil seal to the casings and one bearing to the crank.
Easy peasy!

Sorry about the focus on the crank photo, it just wouldn't work.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by NNK @ Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:40 pm

Looking good.
Have you been at the crank with the Dremel/grinder ? Trying to lighten it ?
Maybe not as you would have to be careful with balance ?
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:21 am

NNK wrote:Looking good.
Have you been at the crank with the Dremel/grinder ? Trying to lighten it ?
Maybe not as you would have to be careful with balance ?


Nope. I'm not THAT talented yet. I've seen it done and it involves cutting the web and drilling out holes and filling them so the balance is perfect.
It's an "anticipated" (not sure what the word is in English) race crank. It has a wider/longer opening in the web so you get more mixture pulled in on every stroke. It's supposed to be balanced out of the box... or it should be for the bloody price.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Pigeon @ Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:53 am

Advanced? Long-duration? Something like that. What's the word in Italian?
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:51 am

Pigeon wrote:Advanced? Long-duration? Something like that. What's the word in Italian?


Anticipato.

Here's the description:

A racing crankshaft gets higher rpm’s, your engine will be agile and have more pep. Better acceleration and higher top speeds are the result.

A racing crankshaft has noticeably longer intake timing in comparison to an original crankshaft. Your fuel charge will also be greater. The crankwebs are streamlined and polished, turbulence and flow blocks are reduced. The connecting rod is partially a polished edged connecting rod, the lower connecting rod bearing is a silver bearing.

Pinasco crankshafts have minimal production tolerances, lowered bearing play and a very good price/performance ratio. High speeds and absolute durability are a guarantee. In this version, the connecting rod is balanced at 12 o'clock. This shaft operates impressively quiet.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Pigeon @ Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:11 pm

Ah, OK, cheers. Looks like that word is rather more versatile than "anticipate" in English. You have "attraversamento anticipato" of binary trees whereas we have to make do with calling it "pre-order traversal" which is fcuking shite and not even sensible English.

With rotating metal trees the technically exact translation seems to be "advanced" as in "advanced timing", but the colloquially loose usage of "albero anticipato" in titles of adverts etc. seems to correspond more to the English "long-duration crank". I found this lot bumbling on about it informative: http://www.vespaonline.com/topic/52946-chi-mi-spiega-lalbero-anticipato/

Thank you, that was fun.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by NNK @ Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:31 pm

Apologies, I hadn't read (or had forgotten) that it was an aftermarket crank so yes it would be balanced already.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:48 am

Crank and oil seal fitted although I'll have to order an M7 x 0.7 nut for the fly end as the 20 cone crank didn't come with one.
Image

Image



Oil seal changed (2 oversize) and gear change fitted
Kickstart quadrant oil seal changed and fitted but even though I'd bagged and labelled everything the bloody spring for the kickstart gear was missing. Balls! Have to order a new one.... and you know that I'll find the old one after I've placed the order don't you?
Image






Time to fit the 27/69 bell. Except it doesn't fit. It seems like the fins are too long by about 2mm.
Balls! Here are all the photos. I think they sent the wrong one or maybe there's a special way of fitting it?
Here you can see the old one goes in but the new one doesn't.
Image
Image
Image

I've posted the question on the vespa forum so I'll let you know.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Deuteronomy @ Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:19 am

Good updates ID :)
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:09 pm

My vespamentor says it WILL fit if I try hard enough.

But it will also mean I'll need a spacer on the clutch cover or it'll rub. 1mm or 2mm or 3mm? nobody is sure. £15 quid each so not something you'd order all of then chuck the others on the shelf.
Then I've a 3 plate clutch to go in there. Will it fit or be too loose? Will I need to upgrade to a 4 plate clutch? Nobody is sure.

So. Another guy I know is going to buy the clutch bell I originally ordered for me and he'll have the Pro Race one I have.
He must be coming out on top with this deal but I'm buggered if I can find one to look at the price. Anyway I'd have to spend more money on plates and spacers and fvcking around and I'd end up with a clutch that is great for racing but shit and heavy in daily use so it's the way to go.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Deuteronomy @ Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:31 pm

Il Duce wrote:great for racing


People race these?
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Deuteronomy @ Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:36 pm

Fcuking hell!

Original video page: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8oc-RSUhWE
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:29 am

Spoke too soon. It appears the one I have is worth half the price of the one I want so I'll buy it and then sell the wrong one.

<hangs "waiting for parts" sign on workshop door>
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