Vespa 125 Banana.

Two wheels good.

Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:33 am

Load of parts ordered over the weekend. Different clutch basket and the missing kickstart spring (which will miraculously reappear the moment I open the parcel) and some nuts for the crankshaft ends. Yes they don't supply them and you have to email the manufacturer for advice because nobody bothered to answer on the vespa forum.

Maybe if they arrive by Thursday I'll be posting something on Friday.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:33 am

No parts unfortunately so I just finished the floor runners. I went for the middle two runners instead of that stupid rubber mat.

Image

Don't worry, I'm going to take those 6 bolts out, buff them and touch up the paint underneath.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:33 am

Fairly constructive weekend without any major problems.

Wait! Don't go! Look at the pretty pictures!!!

Clutch bell arrived and was fitted
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Kickstarter spring arrived and was
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Gears fitted
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Christmas tree gear cluster fitted
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I also stripped down the front brakes, checked them and they were ok, greased the hub and put it all back together.
Then I reconnected the speedo. The rev counter and engine temp work but the speedo drive is mechanical and seems jammed inside the headset. I ordered an electrical/digital cable for the speed but this is a 1st version and doesn't have enough outlets for a digi speedo. Having exhausted all possibilities I left out the inner metal drive and put it all back together. No speed but it's MOT exempt so I don't really care.


I've learnt my lesson from rushing ahead and then having to go back so I stopped there. Plus it was bastard freezing in the workshop. I'll post my photos on the vespa forum so they can check my work.

More on Friday I hope.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:45 pm

What a dickhead.

See that photo of the gears? See the way the biggest one is on the outside?
Well that's wrong.

I was looking at the engine as I finished yesterday lunchtime thinking, "I don't know, something's not quite right there".

Normally you insert the gear shaft then slide on the gears. I thought I'd save time and after I'd stripped it down and checked it, I immediately rebuilt it then left it in the crate ready for installation in one piece. Trouble was I rebuilt it the wrong way round.

Here's the one I did on the red bastard.....and how it should look.


Image
Last edited by Il Duce on Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Aesgarth @ Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:30 pm

Could be worse, at least it's easily accessible...
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:24 pm

Aesgarth wrote:Could be worse, at least it's easily accessible...


True but it's the mechanic equivalent of going to work with your shoes on the wrong feet.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by tanglerat @ Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:24 pm

I feel pretty confident in asserting that had you had a welder, you wouldn't have made that rookie mistake.

The build is looking pretty fantastic so far. How much more work do you reckon you've got to do on it, do you reckon?
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:03 pm

tanglerat wrote:I feel pretty confident in asserting that had you had a welder, you wouldn't have made that rookie mistake.

The build is looking pretty fantastic so far. How much more work do you reckon you've got to do on it, do you reckon?


Once I've re-done the gears then I have to fit the main gasket and close the cases.
After that:
1.build the clutch and mount it and fit the rear hub and fit external gear selector
2. fit the piston and head and squish test (to make sure the piston arrives between .8mm and 1.2mm from the head at TDC) and alter the gasket size to make this so.
3. take off the head, fit the piston rings and torque head down
4. fit the inlet and outlet manifolds and do a pressure test on the casing to make sure of no air leaks
5. fit the stator and flywheel and roughly set the timing to 24 degrees
6. connect the stator to the cdi unit and regulator
7. fit the carb
8. fit the exhaust
9. add oil, petrol and spark plug and then kick it over.
10. if it works, bolt it into the scooter and connect all the wires and connect and adjust all the control cables.

Timing and carb jetting I'll probably leave to someone with a rolling road.



Each and every one could be anything from a 20 minute to 2 hour job depending if it goes well or shit or if my head is up my arse as per Sunday and the gear farce.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:44 am

Well there you are. Gear shaft removed, circlip removed, gears removed from shaft, shaft re-inserted, gears put back on the shaft.... the bloody wrong way again! I even had to check my photos before I was sure I'd buggered it up again. What is wrong with me?

Remove all gears, refit, check, and then re-fit circlip. Done! And it only took 5 minutes.

Image
Image
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:18 pm

Lovely Sunday mornings work doing a job I was dreading: putting the to two engine casings together. In the past what's happened is that you get it all lined up and together, all 14 bolts in but as you start torquing the nuts the crank jams which involves splitting the cases, and refitting and repeat god knows how many times.

So here's the gasket fitted
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All my bolts shined up on my wire wheel
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And here we go, pre-torquing
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And YAHOO!!! All torqued and the crank turns with just fingertip pressure.
Image
Image

Clutch build next. Could be a total bastard as I'm using a special one.
Bring it on!!!
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Deuteronomy @ Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:23 pm

Sorry if you've covered it already, but on the penultimate pic there, below the left most bottom head stud, there looks to be casing damage?
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:43 pm

Deuteronomy wrote:Sorry if you've covered it already, but on the penultimate pic there, below the left most bottom head stud, there looks to be casing damage?


That is where I had to modify the casing to accept the new head.
Before
Image
after
Image
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Deuteronomy @ Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:18 pm

Ah, okay - I'd smooth off the edges to help stop stress cracks forming.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:55 pm

Deuteronomy wrote:Ah, okay - I'd smooth off the edges to help stop stress cracks forming.


Which edges?

Also, they are a lot smoother in real life than they look in the photo.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Deuteronomy @ Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:53 am

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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by tanglerat @ Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:46 am

Nothing a good welding machine couldn't fix.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:15 am

tanglerat wrote:Nothing a good welding machine couldn't fix.


Welding alloy? Bugger off!


Anyway. That bit is not a stressed part. It forms part of the cooling intake for the head.

In the photo the blue line is the plastic cover that goes over the engine head.
The red lines show the track of the air pulled in by the fan and then blown over the head to cool it.
Image

In the second photo you can see there is a black metal cover that goes over the fan to direct the air
The bit that's snapped off on mine is just the fixing for the rhs of the metal cover and isn't important as there are 4 fixings.


Image
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Deuteronomy @ Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:23 am

Il Duce wrote:Anyway. That bit is not a stressed part. It forms part of the cooling intake for the head.


It is stressed, I can see a casing bolt near to it meaning there will be localised forces acting. Honestly, for the sake of 10 mins with a flap disc (or better a die grinder) you could save yourself a whole lot of heartache in the future.

Just smooth it out and make sure any sharp angles are radiused.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:08 am

Deuteronomy wrote:
Il Duce wrote:Anyway. That bit is not a stressed part. It forms part of the cooling intake for the head.


It is stressed, I can see a casing bolt near to it meaning there will be localised forces acting. Honestly, for the sake of 10 mins with a flap disc (or better a die grinder) you could save yourself a whole lot of heartache in the future.

Just smooth it out and make sure any sharp angles are radiused.


Loads of Vespiste run with that part broken and nothing ever happens but I shall do it anyway, mainly because it looks bloody scruffy.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Deuteronomy @ Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:24 am

Il Duce wrote:
Deuteronomy wrote:
Il Duce wrote:Anyway. That bit is not a stressed part. It forms part of the cooling intake for the head.


It is stressed, I can see a casing bolt near to it meaning there will be localised forces acting. Honestly, for the sake of 10 mins with a flap disc (or better a die grinder) you could save yourself a whole lot of heartache in the future.

Just smooth it out and make sure any sharp angles are radiused.


Loads of Vespiste run with that part broken and nothing ever happens but I shall do it anyway, mainly because it looks bloody scruffy.


Good man, I'm happy now :)
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:44 am

Fitted the 3 uprated woodruff keys. Took ages as they had to be "adjusted" to fit. Which also meant i had to work out which one went where as none of them just dropped into place. Out with the parts manual and micrometer and a file.

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Fitted the nut but it just looks too big even though it doesn't foul the clutch cover. I bought the recommended sizes but fvck knows what's going on. I've ordered two more nuts that were for sale on the same webpage that was selling the crank. Pain in the arse!
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And finally I fitted the upgraded Crimaz clutch lever. It has gears so it should be nice and smooth.
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All that took 2 1/2 hours. Where does the time go?
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:23 am

All sorted. None of the nuts were fitting on the 3 "bolts" (crankshaft flywheel side, drive side and clutch bell) On Thursday I thought I'd tried all of the nuts I'd bought on all of the threads and none fitted properly. Last night I was in the workshop picking up some kindling and thought I'd have one more go. Each nut I picked up fitted on each of the correct threads perfectly and were tightened by finger pressure only. WTF is going on? Am I going mad?

Anyway, this is what it should look like. Obvs I'll have to remove two of the nuts to fit the flywheel and clutch but at least they fit.

Image
Image
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Pigeon @ Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:54 am

Il Duce wrote:On Thursday I thought I'd tried all of the nuts I'd bought on all of the threads and none fitted properly. Last night I was in the workshop picking up some kindling and thought I'd have one more go. Each nut I picked up fitted on each of the correct threads perfectly and were tightened by finger pressure only. WTF is going on? Am I going mad?


I've had that happen once or twice. I think it means they're not quite ripe yet or they've got worms in or something.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Aesgarth @ Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:08 pm

It's slightly annoying when that happens but far worse the other way round - where they go on fine when you test fit them but will not go on when you actually need them to. Oh, and at least they're accessible...
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:13 am

Crimaz Easy Clutch.

Well it wasn't bloody easy let me tell you.

You buy a performance clutch and you have to use some parts of the old one.
But they don't tell you which of the 8 parts and they don't give you any instructions about which way round they go.
So you have 16 parts and 8 positions and two sides.

Ninetysixbillion different permutations and nobody has put a video on the web to help.

A normal clutch takes 15 minutes to strip and rebuild.
This bastard took me 2 hours.

Look! Pretty!

Image

Anyway it's done.

Unfortunately it won't go into the clutch housing built so I have to strip it down and build it up inside the housing.
That's Thursday afternoon then.

All of it probably.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:11 am

Arseshittitfvck.

Got the clutch in. Went to torque the clutch nut and the bastard shaft threaded.
This means the gear cluster has to come out and be replaced.
Have to buy a new one, split the cases and fit it.
Maybe it can be re-threaded but it'd have to come out anyway to do it.

One step forward, eight steps back. Oh hang on, there are just no steps forward.
Before long I'll end up back with a bench full of parts.
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:18 am

Engine opened and duff part removed in 20 mins.
Now just waiting for the new part.

Edge of the seat stuff eh?

Oh, I tried to "die" cut a new thread in the duff part but it wasn't having it- the nut still went around and around.
Nice £90 paperweight!
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Aesgarth @ Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:35 am

Il Duce wrote:Engine opened and duff part removed in 20 mins.
Now just waiting for the new part.

Edge of the seat stuff eh?

Oh, I tried to "die" cut a new thread in the duff part but it wasn't having it- the nut still went around and around.
Nice £90 paperweight!

Can you cut a different thread (next size down) and use a smaller nut?

Any photos of the offending item?
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Il Duce @ Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:27 am

Aesgarth wrote:
Il Duce wrote:Engine opened and duff part removed in 20 mins.
Now just waiting for the new part.

Edge of the seat stuff eh?

Oh, I tried to "die" cut a new thread in the duff part but it wasn't having it- the nut still went around and around.
Nice £90 paperweight!

Can you cut a different thread (next size down) and use a smaller nut?

Any photos of the offending item?



Possibly but I'd be afraid it might weaken the shaft too much and shear off at the end. I suppose it could work on a standard 7 bhp motor but I wouldn't want to chance it with this one as it's forecast to be in the low 20's.

Here's the fecked thread. It's the centre one that's looks effed.
(And yes I know the woodruff key is in upside down- I just stuffed it back in there after removing the clutch, for the photo)

Image

Here's a picture of the whole thing:

Image
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Re: Vespa 125 Banana.

Post by Careless Whisperer @ Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:46 pm

If you had a welder, you could just smack a nut on there with a hammer and weld it in place. Sorted!
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