Elle cover shot with an iPhone

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Elle cover shot with an iPhone

Post by Disastrous @ Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:19 pm

Is 'proper' photography in it's death throes?

http://www.digitalrev.com/article/elle- ... mpaign=edm

There's very little to get excited about with each new 'big' camera release from the traditional makers and a pro I was on a job with last week was showing off his iPhone 7 Plus camera and saying he was struggling to find a reason to take his DSLR to anything except to show clients he is pro.

It seems like software is kicking the arse out of hardware but I feel that good glass is still the major differentiator. Perhaps that will change too and then the humble camera is really fcuked.

I saw a magazine spread done on an RX100 recently and I honestly couldn't see what a bigger camera would have added. Likewise, in China, I didn't wont for my bigger camera at all. My M3 with a 22mm pancake did everything I could have wanted and it's about iPhone 7 plus-sized. I get that you need longer lenses and faster bursts for sports or nature but when resolution becomes so high that we can just post-crop from a massive wide shot and adjust DoF to taste after the fact, then why bother?

Anyway, I thought it was interesting. At the moment these iPhone features are just that - features that make a thing out of being done with an iPhone - but I guess we will see a point where it's just not worth mentioning the camera any more.


What do we think?
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Re: Elle cover shot with an iPhone

Post by Strawman @ Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:33 pm

Yeah it's interesting, but I closed the window before reading to the end.
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Re: Elle cover shot with an iPhone

Post by Monty @ Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:34 pm

(Unsurprisingly) I'm a real old fart about this sort of thing. No no, really! I also haven't read any of that article.

I have a phone for txt'ing & making phone calls with the odd photo for when I'm out cycling. I'd certainly not consider paying a fortune for an i-phone x or whatever the latest must-have brand is no matter how good the camera is in it.
But of course progress veers me off the path of a Luddite, and there will come a time when I get fed up with swapping lenses 'n shit.
When that time comes I'll be getting a more compact camera (like yours), or whatever there is around at that time.

I think there has been quite a shake up in the film business (of which I know nothing about) with the ability, no so long ago, to make a reasonable film on a Canon something.

I agree, for sports & long reach photography I don't see a way around a monstrous lens...yet. But mobiles already have those clip on 'lens' things which produce good results...when viewed through a...errr....mobile screen. It's probably only a matter of time before I'm contemplating selling all my lenses for the ease of a decent & capable compact mirrorless.
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Re: Elle cover shot with an iPhone

Post by CJ+ @ Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:35 pm

For "normal" photography - i.e. at shutter speeds, apertures and focal lengths that don't require a tripod or fancy lighting - phones are more than good enough these days.

However, there's only so much software can do, and you cannae change the laws of physics, cap'n, so some things will always need a big sensor and specific lenses.

Low-light, long-exposure, posh portraiture (with triggered flash, etc.), anything where you need repeatability (product photography), sports photography, etc.

I'll think of more later.
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Re: Elle cover shot with an iPhone

Post by Deuteronomy @ Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:37 pm

I'm dreadful with cameras and barely know one end from the other.

Nonetheless, I'd be sad to see them (traditional looks-like-a-camera camera) fade away.

Still progress and all that.

I'm the same with electric cars, it'll be sad when combustion engines stop being mainstream, but inevitable.
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Re: Elle cover shot with an iPhone

Post by Strawman @ Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:38 pm

CJ+ wrote:I'll think of more later.


Zooming
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Re: Elle cover shot with an iPhone

Post by Disastrous @ Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:43 pm

Aye, but I think it's pretty clear that what will ultimately happen is your phone/camera/whatever will just take a massively sharp, gigagillionbillion pixel 360 degree image. You then open it up in Lightroom 2097 and adjust crop, light, aperture, motion blur etc to taste. Why even shoot sports/nature as stills if you can take 3billionK wide angle video and just crop and render out the decisive moment?

The point being software can only do so much *now* but it gets better every day.

It's already happened in music but there's been an interesting resurgence in hardware over the past couple of years as people realise that the tactility and utility of using a piece of actual kit imparts something intangible to their workflow. Perhaps that will be the case with photography?
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Re: Elle cover shot with an iPhone

Post by Strawman @ Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:48 pm

Disastrous wrote:You then open it up in Lightroom 2097 and adjust crop, light, aperture, motion blur etc to taste.


I'll be disappointed if man can't download images from the mind by then, no hardware needed to capture an image.
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Re: Elle cover shot with an iPhone

Post by thekungfury @ Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:53 pm

I'd be interested to see the curve of quality and see where the iPhone (and similar) sit today. Forex an iPhone 7 is as "good" as an average 2009 compact and an average 2005 DSLR.

It's the tog that makes the difference, obv, but please humour me.
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Re: Elle cover shot with an iPhone

Post by CJ+ @ Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:00 pm

Disastrous wrote:Aye, but I think it's pretty clear that what will ultimately happen is your phone/camera/whatever will just take a massively sharp, gigagillionbillion pixel 360 degree image. You then open it up in Lightroom 2097 and adjust crop, light, aperture, motion blur etc to taste. Why even shoot sports/nature as stills if you can take 3billionK wide angle video and just crop and render out the decisive moment?

Because the actual geometry of what the camera see changes depending on focal length, because physics.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/femail ... shape.html
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Re: Elle cover shot with an iPhone

Post by Disastrous @ Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:26 pm

CJ+ wrote:
Disastrous wrote:Aye, but I think it's pretty clear that what will ultimately happen is your phone/camera/whatever will just take a massively sharp, gigagillionbillion pixel 360 degree image. You then open it up in Lightroom 2097 and adjust crop, light, aperture, motion blur etc to taste. Why even shoot sports/nature as stills if you can take 3billionK wide angle video and just crop and render out the decisive moment?

Because the actual geometry of what the camera see changes depending on focal length, because physics.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/femail ... shape.html



That is true, but I'm near certain it can/will be modelled in the same way you can compensate for barrel distortion or whatever.

I'm envisaging an ultra wide view that is then 'corrected' to conform to the focal length and aperture you wish you had shot it at. There's a video camera that's already super close to this (it can even automatically chromakey a midfield subject in camera, and adjust aperture post shoot) but I can't for the life of me remember the name of it.
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Re: Elle cover shot with an iPhone

Post by CJ+ @ Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:30 pm

Disastrous wrote:
CJ+ wrote:
Disastrous wrote:Aye, but I think it's pretty clear that what will ultimately happen is your phone/camera/whatever will just take a massively sharp, gigagillionbillion pixel 360 degree image. You then open it up in Lightroom 2097 and adjust crop, light, aperture, motion blur etc to taste. Why even shoot sports/nature as stills if you can take 3billionK wide angle video and just crop and render out the decisive moment?

Because the actual geometry of what the camera see changes depending on focal length, because physics.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/femail ... shape.html



That is true, but I'm near certain it can/will be modelled in the same way you can compensate for barrel distortion or whatever.

I'm envisaging an ultra wide view that is then 'corrected' to conform to the focal length and aperture you wish you had shot it at. There's a video camera that's already super close to this (it can even automatically chromakey a midfield subject in camera, and adjust aperture post shoot) but I can't for the life of me remember the name of it.

Adjusting aperture is one thing - adjusting focal length quite something else. You'd basically have to raytrace the whole scene in real time at multi-megapixel resolutions using instantly-captured super-high-resolution 3D meshes of everything in the scene, including the bits the camera would be able to see at every possible focal length.

Tell you what. You invent that, right, and I'll take 0.1% of the profits. Deal?

Deal.
Last edited by CJ+ on Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Elle cover shot with an iPhone

Post by Disastrous @ Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:37 pm

You know it'll happen! The fact that we are able to comprehend how it *could* be done means that a) it will be done b) it's probably going to be done quite soon and c) someone smarter has probably figured out a neater way of doing it...

I'm assuming the reason why fcuk all is really happening in cameras at the moment is because they're all busy cooking up the next break through. But yeah, if I get a chance at lunch tomorrow I'll knock up a prototype.
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Re: Elle cover shot with an iPhone

Post by Käsemeister @ Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:11 pm

Disastrous wrote:Is 'proper' photography in it's death throes?


See: Garage Band / ipod

Now see: Abbey Road


It's dead in it's current form, times are a'changin', but its pure form will continue to exist.
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Re: Elle cover shot with an iPhone

Post by Disastrous @ Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:41 pm

Sort of, I think.

To take your example, if you distil it down, Abbey Road's job ultimately, is to capture the sound of it's rooms with as much detail as possible. It's the musician and the engineer's job to make it sound good.

Similarly, a canera's job is to capture light. The photographer makes the photo and the lighting and setting become the Abbey Road.

So if you have the best camera ever that can capture absolutely everything perfectly in one click, then the focus moves to the lighting, the mood, the post processing.

So yeah, like music. One can produce pro images with cheap gear at home in either field. You don't *need* Abbey Road to make a hit record or a bag of Zeiss to make the cover of Elle. But they're still quite nice to have.
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Re: Elle cover shot with an iPhone

Post by Käsemeister @ Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:28 pm

I think you've over thought that with your thinking. But the final paragraph, yes.
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Re: Elle cover shot with an iPhone

Post by Careless Whisperer @ Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:52 am

But you can't really boast about taking a photo with a full iPhone system?
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Re: Elle cover shot with an iPhone

Post by Barbarianna @ Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:23 am

Disastrous wrote:You know it'll happen! The fact that we are able to comprehend how it *could* be done means that a) it will be done b) it's probably going to be done quite soon and c) someone smarter has probably figured out a neater way of doing it...

I'm assuming the reason why fcuk all is really happening in cameras at the moment is because they're all busy cooking up the next break through. But yeah, if I get a chance at lunch tomorrow I'll knock up a prototype.


I agree that democratising the technology of photography makes its more ordinary duties more easy to automate and replicate, just like photography once did for painted portraits. The end point of the tech will indeed be this mad super-res, omni-focal 3D scene grabbing device. In turn, this trend this clears room, oddly enough, for the return of the artistry, commitment, industry contacts, and specific creativity that defines a career photographer. All professions eventually face the challenge of adapting or becoming extinct as technology improves or obsoletes it; even the oldest profession.
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Re: Elle cover shot with an iPhone

Post by Dirk @ Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:00 am

We have a friend who is a professional photographer. He does artwork for advertising campaigns and the like.
Although he is a very good photographer and does obviously have very good cameras, I think he could do his job without them already. Most of his job is now in the detailed conceptualisation and then post-photo manipulation, not just photoshop but more specialist stuff like making one image out of thousands of others.

He uses a phone camera for taking family shots.
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Re: Elle cover shot with an iPhone

Post by CJ+ @ Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:40 pm

It's almost as if a professional uses the most appropriate tools for the job, or something, Dirk.
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Re: Elle cover shot with an iPhone

Post by moleamol @ Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:21 pm

Photography is a bit of a weird one, because of course the digital stuff can be put into a phone. However I bought a digital camera when they were first around. It's 3MP but has such a good lense that for up to A4, possibly A3 it's better than my cheaper 12MP one. With the size of a phone lense it will always struggle in situations that aren't ideal. I think the answer to that is one like Dis has where the sensor and lense are bigger but the tech is packed into a small body. I don't think phones, unless they change can replicate that, even though they can get the tech. in. Saying all that I haven't bought a digital camera for ages because my phone does fine. I don't know now. Shut up you're not my real dad!!
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Re: Elle cover shot with an iPhone

Post by Barbarianna @ Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:55 am

moleamol wrote:Photography is a bit of a weird one, because of course the digital stuff can be put into a phone. However I bought a digital camera when they were first around. It's 3MP but has such a good lense that for up to A4, possibly A3 it's better than my cheaper 12MP one. With the size of a phone lense it will always struggle in situations that aren't ideal. I think the answer to that is one like Dis has where the sensor and lense are bigger but the tech is packed into a small body. I don't think phones, unless they change can replicate that, even though they can get the tech. in. Saying all that I haven't bought a digital camera for ages because my phone does fine. I don't know now. Shut up you're not my real dad!!


Too right moles. If the lense compound is more dens, the improvement in resolution is immens!
It's common sens.
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Re: Elle cover shot with an iPhone

Post by moleamol @ Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:01 pm

Barbarianna wrote:
moleamol wrote:Photography is a bit of a weird one, because of course the digital stuff can be put into a phone. However I bought a digital camera when they were first around. It's 3MP but has such a good lense that for up to A4, possibly A3 it's better than my cheaper 12MP one. With the size of a phone lense it will always struggle in situations that aren't ideal. I think the answer to that is one like Dis has where the sensor and lense are bigger but the tech is packed into a small body. I don't think phones, unless they change can replicate that, even though they can get the tech. in. Saying all that I haven't bought a digital camera for ages because my phone does fine. I don't know now. Shut up you're not my real dad!!


Too right moles. If the lense compound is more dens, the improvement in resolution is immens!
It's common sens.

:rotfl:
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Re: Elle cover shot with an iPhone

Post by thekungfury @ Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:33 pm

Barbarianna wrote:
moleamol wrote:Photography is a bit of a weird one, because of course the digital stuff can be put into a phone. However I bought a digital camera when they were first around. It's 3MP but has such a good lense that for up to A4, possibly A3 it's better than my cheaper 12MP one. With the size of a phone lense it will always struggle in situations that aren't ideal. I think the answer to that is one like Dis has where the sensor and lense are bigger but the tech is packed into a small body. I don't think phones, unless they change can replicate that, even though they can get the tech. in. Saying all that I haven't bought a digital camera for ages because my phone does fine. I don't know now. Shut up you're not my real dad!!


Too right moles. If the lense compound is more dens, the improvement in resolution is immens!
It's common sens.

That's funny because poster moleamol wrote lense instead of lens.
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Re: Elle cover shot with an iPhone

Post by CJ+ @ Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:47 pm

Well that escalated quickly.
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Re: Elle cover shot with an iPhone

Post by Disastrous @ Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:48 pm

And that's when the fight started!!!
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Re: Elle cover shot with an iPhone

Post by Barbarianna @ Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:48 pm

thekungfury wrote:
Barbarianna wrote:
moleamol wrote:Photography is a bit of a weird one, because of course the digital stuff can be put into a phone. However I bought a digital camera when they were first around. It's 3MP but has such a good lense that for up to A4, possibly A3 it's better than my cheaper 12MP one. With the size of a phone lense it will always struggle in situations that aren't ideal. I think the answer to that is one like Dis has where the sensor and lense are bigger but the tech is packed into a small body. I don't think phones, unless they change can replicate that, even though they can get the tech. in. Saying all that I haven't bought a digital camera for ages because my phone does fine. I don't know now. Shut up you're not my real dad!!


Too right moles. If the lense compound is more dens, the improvement in resolution is immens!
It's common sens.

That's funny because poster moleamol wrote lense instead of lens.


And as we can see, he already rotfld it to acknowledge that he got the joke. Though part of me thinks it is equally, if not more likely, that his rotfl was the kind of self-rib-tickle hahaha that northerners do to signify their lack of amusement at a joke at their expense. Since they are generally skint, they cannot budget for such contingencies in their weekly stipend of cigarettes and lice shampoo so they pay only lip service to it. Ooops, there I go again with the jokes and stuff!
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Re: Elle cover shot with an iPhone

Post by moleamol @ Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:07 pm

Barbarianna wrote:
thekungfury wrote:
Barbarianna wrote:
moleamol wrote:Photography is a bit of a weird one, because of course the digital stuff can be put into a phone. However I bought a digital camera when they were first around. It's 3MP but has such a good lense that for up to A4, possibly A3 it's better than my cheaper 12MP one. With the size of a phone lense it will always struggle in situations that aren't ideal. I think the answer to that is one like Dis has where the sensor and lense are bigger but the tech is packed into a small body. I don't think phones, unless they change can replicate that, even though they can get the tech. in. Saying all that I haven't bought a digital camera for ages because my phone does fine. I don't know now. Shut up you're not my real dad!!


Too right moles. If the lense compound is more dens, the improvement in resolution is immens!
It's common sens.

That's funny because poster moleamol wrote lense instead of lens.


And as we can see, he already rotfld it to acknowledge that he got the joke. Though part of me thinks it is equally, if not more likely, that his rotfl was the kind of self-rib-tickle hahaha that northerners do to signify their lack of amusement at a joke at their expense. Since they are generally skint, they cannot budget for such contingencies in their weekly stipend of cigarettes and lice shampoo so they pay only lip service to it. Ooops, there I go again with the jokes and stuff!

That's better!
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Re: Elle cover shot with an iPhone

Post by Barbarianna @ Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:10 pm

moleamol wrote:
Barbarianna wrote:
thekungfury wrote:
Barbarianna wrote:
moleamol wrote:Photography is a bit of a weird one, because of course the digital stuff can be put into a phone. However I bought a digital camera when they were first around. It's 3MP but has such a good lense that for up to A4, possibly A3 it's better than my cheaper 12MP one. With the size of a phone lense it will always struggle in situations that aren't ideal. I think the answer to that is one like Dis has where the sensor and lense are bigger but the tech is packed into a small body. I don't think phones, unless they change can replicate that, even though they can get the tech. in. Saying all that I haven't bought a digital camera for ages because my phone does fine. I don't know now. Shut up you're not my real dad!!


Too right moles. If the lense compound is more dens, the improvement in resolution is immens!
It's common sens.

That's funny because poster moleamol wrote lense instead of lens.


And as we can see, he already rotfld it to acknowledge that he got the joke. Though part of me thinks it is equally, if not more likely, that his rotfl was the kind of self-rib-tickle hahaha that northerners do to signify their lack of amusement at a joke at their expense. Since they are generally skint, they cannot budget for such contingencies in their weekly stipend of cigarettes and lice shampoo so they pay only lip service to it. Ooops, there I go again with the jokes and stuff!

That's better!



Nobody gives a shit what you think in this debacle.
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Re: Elle cover shot with an iPhone

Post by moleamol @ Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:24 pm

Barbarianna wrote:
moleamol wrote:
Barbarianna wrote:
thekungfury wrote:
Barbarianna wrote:
moleamol wrote:Photography is a bit of a weird one, because of course the digital stuff can be put into a phone. However I bought a digital camera when they were first around. It's 3MP but has such a good lense that for up to A4, possibly A3 it's better than my cheaper 12MP one. With the size of a phone lense it will always struggle in situations that aren't ideal. I think the answer to that is one like Dis has where the sensor and lense are bigger but the tech is packed into a small body. I don't think phones, unless they change can replicate that, even though they can get the tech. in. Saying all that I haven't bought a digital camera for ages because my phone does fine. I don't know now. Shut up you're not my real dad!!


Too right moles. If the lense compound is more dens, the improvement in resolution is immens!
It's common sens.

That's funny because poster moleamol wrote lense instead of lens.


And as we can see, he already rotfld it to acknowledge that he got the joke. Though part of me thinks it is equally, if not more likely, that his rotfl was the kind of self-rib-tickle hahaha that northerners do to signify their lack of amusement at a joke at their expense. Since they are generally skint, they cannot budget for such contingencies in their weekly stipend of cigarettes and lice shampoo so they pay only lip service to it. Ooops, there I go again with the jokes and stuff!

That's better!



Nobody gives a shit what you think in this debacle.

Laugh.
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