Divorced - house selling issue

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Divorced - house selling issue

Post by DI Burnside @ Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:46 pm

The relevant facts are:

Couple are divorced but still jointly own the marital home.

Neither can afford the mortgage on their own.

House has been on the market for well over a year.

The woman still lives in the house with the 2 children.

She doesn't want to sell. She wants things to stay exactly as they are as she's basically living rent free, she's quite obviously putting people off when they come and view as houses simply don't take that long to sell around here. Commuter belt, excellent schools, etc, etc.

He wants to sell. It's costing him £900 per month, which would drop to £250 max when the house is sold.



So, how can he get himself out of this situation with his credit rating intact ?
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Re: Divorced - house selling issue

Post by NNK @ Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:02 am

He will have to insist on her and kids moving into rented house leaving family home empty for easier sale. It would probably help if he offered to pay rent for a while.
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Divorced - house selling issue

Post by DI Burnside @ Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:46 am

She's going nowhere, she even rang him this week and asked him to take it off the market so she can carry on living there. He needs a way to force the sale or get his name off the mortgage.
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Re: Divorced - house selling issue

Post by randlemarcus @ Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:37 am

He needs to apply to the Courts for an Order for Sale. If he has a divorce lawyer, get him to get in touch with them. If he doesn't, he soon will, and it's good advice to get the best he can afford.

Given the fact that she is there, and will inevitably state that she can't afford anything, it will take a while.
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Divorced - house selling issue

Post by DI Burnside @ Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:48 am

Thanks RM, what will that mean though ?

It's on the market now, she's just putting people off, so how will an order for sale change anything ?
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Re: Divorced - house selling issue

Post by randlemarcus @ Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:49 am

The answer to that depends quite a lot on her attitude.
The introduction of the court might give her a wake-up call, and the realisation that this will happen may dawn, leading to a better attitude. Failing that, there is always the threat of contempt proceedings, should she continue to take the proverbial. Getting your mate to get some work colleagues to pose as buyers may provide some semi-independent evidence as to her taking the michael.

Failing that, he needs to face the possibility that he will have to fire sale the property, and lose some equity, either by making the price attractive enough to overcome the looney woman in the house, or by approaching one of the webuyanyhouse types, and really taking a kicking for it.

Being open with the latter option, especially the housebuying firms, with the nice lady may lead her to realise that the only person she is actually hurting is herself, in the pocket. His attitude should be that he will be lucky to walk off with any equity whatsoever, as she has kids and clunge, therefore holds all the cards. Difficult as it may be, and unpalatable, its time for an adult, and honest conversation with her.
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Divorced - house selling issue

Post by DI Burnside @ Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:57 am

I think he's fcuked then, unless he can prove she's putting people off. Getting mates to view it might be an option.

There is equity in the house but it is needed to pay off a rather large debt they've run up. That said a lot if the debt is to her parents who bailed them out, and they're happy to wait to be paid back if she can stay in the house. The bottom line is she won't agree to a sale unless it's a decent amount.

Messy.
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Re: Divorced - house selling issue

Post by Dirk @ Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:51 am

Would she lose out if the property went for less or just him?

tell her that unless the place is sold within x months it will go for auction and then she will lose out on price as well
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Re: Divorced - house selling issue

Post by Käsemeister @ Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:06 am

It never ceases to amaze me how vitriolicand downright stupid these exercises can get. There's a house down the way from us outside the next village that kicked off at over £2m. Such was the arguing over it between the spouses that they rejected offers around that figure (granted at the height of the market) and then slowly over the course of four years put off an endless stream of buyers.

We tried to buy it at one point when it was up for a much lower price. We made an offer, they insisted we raise it, we asked for a second viewing (our first had been a quick 20min run round). They refused unless we raised our offer first.... we told them to go fcuk themselves.

They had offers ranging from the original asking price all the way down to the final sale figure last year..... £825k.

So four years of pointless arguments, and £1.2m lost.

Stupid.
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Re: Divorced - house selling issue

Post by HeavySoul @ Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:25 am

Expensive way to prove and often tiny point!
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Re: Divorced - house selling issue

Post by Careless Whisperer @ Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:47 am

crikey wrote:I think he's fcuked then, unless he can prove she's putting people off. Getting mates to view it might be an option.

There is equity in the house but it is needed to pay off a rather large debt they've run up. That said a lot if the debt is to her parents who bailed them out, and they're happy to wait to be paid back if she can stay in the house. The bottom line is she won't agree to a sale unless it's a decent amount.

Messy.

The bloke is in a real hands tied situation here. As presumably the main earner, he's going to get stung for the majority of that debt the outlaws. However, their lack of urgency in recovering their debt is enabling their daughter to continue living rent free, adding to that debt and trapping the bloke from getting out.

Depending on what the debt value is compared to the equity value in the house, a simple solution may be to suggest the parents have the house in exchange for the debt. They can then choose to continue providing their daughter with a roof over her head, or they can have the hassle of selling to recover their debt. All without the bloke being held to an ever increasing ransom.

A frank discussion should be had to establish exactly what the woman is hoping to get out of the situation. Her current rent free situation can only ever last until the bloke goes bankrupt or the parents do.
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Re: Divorced - house selling issue

Post by Firkin @ Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:53 am

The only winners in this situation will be the Solicitors.

If they areed on a Clean Break Divorce then the house should have been sold and funds divided up as part of the initial Divorce settlement. I'd go back to the original Solictors to find out why this did not happen, although I suspect that in this case the ExWife has used every reason in the book to fcuk the normal course of action up, but the Solicitors should have stopped it getting this far. But then they still get paid for the length of time it all drags out...
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Divorced - house selling issue

Post by DI Burnside @ Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:16 pm

Thanks for the feedback/advice.

The equity will pretty much cancel out the debt when sold, but as I said the main debt is to her parents who are happy for it to drag out for her sake.

However, another sizeable chunk is owed to his parents, who are planning on travelling the world for 18 months before they get too old, so obviously they want it sold so they get their money back.

So both familes are at odds, which was very evident at their daughter's birthday party last night, you could have drawn a line down the middle of the room.

If I were him I'd be giving serious consideration to just defaulting on the mortgage just to get out of the situation, and I'd certainly be dropping big hints to her that that's what I was considering, because she'd be royally fcuked then. This may even turn out to be the only thing he can do.

Neither can afford to buy the other out, neither set of parents can afford to buy the house outright or buy the other person's share. The only option is to sell, but of course the woman's circumstances and leverage are preventing that.
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Re: Divorced - house selling issue

Post by Käsemeister @ Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:57 pm

There are kids involved.... if he defaults he automatically becomes The Bad Man.... not a good position to be in.
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Divorced - house selling issue

Post by DI Burnside @ Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:08 pm

I think the kids will realise who the bad person is before too long. In fact the way the daughter is being treated by the Mum I'm surprised it hasn't all kicked off already.
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Re: Re: Divorced - house selling issue

Post by Käsemeister @ Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:57 pm

crikey wrote:I think the kids will realise who the bad person is before too long. In fact the way the daughter is being treated by the Mum I'm surprised it hasn't all kicked off already.


Wasn't quite what I meant. Divorce courts are predisposed towards the mother by default, so if he does something to risk the kids "house", he becomes the bad guy in the eyes of the law.
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Divorced - house selling issue

Post by DI Burnside @ Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:27 pm

Käsemeister wrote:
crikey wrote:I think the kids will realise who the bad person is before too long. In fact the way the daughter is being treated by the Mum I'm surprised it hasn't all kicked off already.


Wasn't quite what I meant. Divorce courts are predisposed towards the mother by default, so if he does something to risk the kids "house", he becomes the bad guy in the eyes of the law.

I was forced into it m'lord, I tried everything as you can see m'lord, I even applied for a court order to sell it m'lord.
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Re: Divorced - house selling issue

Post by randlemarcus @ Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:05 am

Department of slightly dirty tricks might suggest that his parents get their debt registered as a second charge on the property, then their money will come to them (equity being available, natch) before the outlaws.
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Re: Divorced - house selling issue

Post by Nellie @ Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:11 am

Can they do that, even if there isn't a legal contract in place?
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Divorced - house selling issue

Post by DI Burnside @ Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:33 am

I'll let them know that RM, thanks.

They have signed some sort of contract with both sets of parents that means they get their money back when the house is sold.
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Re: Divorced - house selling issue

Post by Careless Whisperer @ Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:40 am

crikey wrote:I'll let them know that RM, thanks.

They have signed some sort of contract with both sets of parents that means they get their money back when the house is sold.

Only if the money is there. The parents need to understand that if the situation persists, them they will lose their money. If this can be understood, then hopefully they'll also be applying pressure on the woman.
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Divorced - house selling issue

Post by DI Burnside @ Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:52 am

There's enough equity in the house to cover the debt so if it sells they'll be ok, but what happens if they default ? I assume the bank take possession and sell it to get their money back, but what about the equity in that scenario ?
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Re: Divorced - house selling issue

Post by Strawman @ Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:37 am

The equity takes a hit, there are various penalties and fees applied to repossessed properties by the lender, plus repossessed houses are advertised as such and generally sold for less than they would have if sold by the owner (although not always the case). The remainder of the equity, after the loan and fees are paid off, is given back to the owners*.





(*at least this was the case 20 years ago)
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Re: Divorced - house selling issue

Post by Careless Whisperer @ Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:17 am

Strawman wrote:The equity takes a hit, there are various penalties and fees applied to repossessed properties by the lender, plus repossessed houses are advertised as such and generally sold for less than they would have if sold by the owner (although not always the case). The remainder of the equity, after the loan and fees are paid off, is given back to the owners*.





(*at least this was the case 20 years ago)

Hence the very real prospect that the parents may not get their money back if things are forced this far.
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