Council car parks - fines

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Council car parks - fines

Post by DI Burnside @ Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:05 pm

Long story short.

Parked in car park, bought ticket, £3, put it on dashboard, shut door, fcuked off. Came back, parking ticket. £25 fine.

I'm guessing that the act of shutting the door created a draft which blew the ticket over so it was still visible but face down.

So, I filled in their online "informal challenge" form, and stated the ticket number so they could check it.

I subsequently receive a letter rejecting my informal challenge.

I write back rejecting their rejection, including a photocopy of the ticket, and make it clear, politely, that I'm not paying the fine.

Another letter arrived today saying the fine is now £50, and if not paid in 28 days will go up to £75.

I've already told them I'll happily wait until they pursue a civil case against me, but I'm not paying.

Anyway, before I just reply with a we'v, have they actually got any standing in law ? It's a private company acting on behalf of a council.

I won't back down.
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Re: Council car parks - fines

Post by Firkin @ Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:38 pm

I just had similar happen. Bought ticket and put on dash, but in my case it appears that whilst I was trying to stop the kids from killing each other I put it the wrong way up. Come back to £60 fine. At this stage I was so annoyed I grabbed the ticket and threw it and the PCN on the passenger seat, still not realising I'd left it facing the wrong way.

I sent a letter to my local Council saying I had bought a ticket and even glued said ticket to my letter. Got a reply about 10 days later with pictures of the ticket the wrong way up on my dash. But they cancelled the ticket as they could see I had bought one, just been bloody stupid in not displaying it correctly.

Surely if one council cancels it, they all should.
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Council car parks - fines

Post by DI Burnside @ Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:40 pm

That's what they're trying to fine me for, not displaying it properly.
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Re: Council car parks - fines

Post by Pigeon @ Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:42 pm

Firkin wrote:just been bloody stupid in not displaying it correctly.


:nono: It's them who are being bloody stupid for getting their knickers in a twist over something so trivial as which fcuking way up it is.
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Re: Council car parks - fines

Post by morebeanz @ Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:43 pm

Pigeon wrote:
Firkin wrote:just been bloody stupid in not displaying it correctly.


:nono: It's them who are being bloody stupid for getting their knickers in a twist over something so trivial as which fcuking way up it is.


Not wanting to be a damp squib or anything, but how should the attendant know how long you have paid for and for which date, if you don't show it?
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Re: Council car parks - fines

Post by Pigeon @ Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:44 pm

It's not exactly difficult to read upside down :)
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Re: Council car parks - fines

Post by Firkin @ Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:46 pm

Pigeon wrote:
Firkin wrote:just been bloody stupid in not displaying it correctly.


:nono: It's them who are being bloody stupid for getting their knickers in a twist over something so trivial as which fcuking way up it is.


I think you misunderstand what I mean by wrong way up. All they could see was the advert on the back, the date and time stamp was underneath face down so they were unable to read it.

By all rights I should have to pay the fine as it was down to me not displaying it correctly, despite the fact that I had showed willing by buying the ticket in the first place.

Was a bit annoyed by a £60 fine for a Car Park in the arse end of nowhere, where they can only justify 30p per hour parking. That shows how out of town it was.
Last edited by Firkin on Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Council car parks - fines

Post by WD40 @ Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:03 pm

Firkin wrote:Surely if one council cancels it, they all should.


IN theory, but not in practice. It's at their discretion as by your own admission, it was your fault the ticket wasn't displayed correctly. As MB says, if they could only see the back, you could be someone who parks there frequently and that may be a ticket from yesterday or last week etc.

Subject to the council concerned, parking fines may be a civil matter or a criminal one: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/WhereYouLive/StreetsParkingCleaningAndLighting/DG_10024872

In London and many areas in England local councils have the power to enforce parking restrictions. The council can issue a penalty charge notice (PCN) for a parking offence.

In areas where the local council does not have civil parking enforcement powers, parking is a criminal matter. The police can issue a fixed penalty notice (FPN) for a parking offence and FPNs may be challenged in a magistrate’s court.
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Re: Council car parks - fines

Post by Careless Whisperer @ Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:11 pm

A couple of times I have received parking fines for overstaying my paid time in a bay right outside a council office. The reason I overstayed was that the person I was meeting in the council kept me waiting for over an hour, so consequently our meetings overran by more than the extra hour I had allowed for.

I added the parking fines to my invoice. They paid. :)
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Re: Council car parks - fines

Post by tanglerat @ Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:59 pm

It's pay and display

[/unhelpful]
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Re: Council car parks - fines

Post by WD40 @ Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:59 pm

tanglerat wrote:It's pay and display

[/unhelpful]


:hehe:
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Re: Council car parks - fines

Post by DI Burnside @ Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:45 pm

tanglerat wrote:It's pay and display

[/unhelpful]


Rules ! Obviously.

But them again COMMON fcuking SENSE !
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Re: Council car parks - fines

Post by DI Burnside @ Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:47 pm

WD40 wrote:
Firkin wrote:Surely if one council cancels it, they all should.


IN theory, but not in practice. It's at their discretion as by your own admission, it was your fault the ticket wasn't displayed correctly. As MB says, if they could only see the back, you could be someone who parks there frequently and that may be a ticket from yesterday or last week etc.

Subject to the council concerned, parking fines may be a civil matter or a criminal one: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/WhereYouLive/StreetsParkingCleaningAndLighting/DG_10024872

In London and many areas in England local councils have the power to enforce parking restrictions. The council can issue a penalty charge notice (PCN) for a parking offence.

In areas where the local council does not have civil parking enforcement powers, parking is a criminal matter. The police can issue a fixed penalty notice (FPN) for a parking offence and FPNs may be challenged in a magistrate’s court.


I think it depends on location as well. Public highway and all that.

It's a PCN, so civil, so they can fcuk off.
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Re: Council car parks - fines

Post by Pigeon @ Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:47 pm

'Course, what would be really great would be if councils stopped viewing anyone who has a car as a rich cnut who can legitimately be used as a cash cow. Drive into town, because how else are you going to get there, find the cost of the trip more than doubled by reason of being screwed for parking charges... which are nothing more than legalised extortion anyway, and it's not as if a car park costs them anything to run, apart from... the cost of running the fcuking ticket machines. So fcuk 'em. I'd rather spend hours and gallons driving round and round looking for somewhere to park for free than give any money to the parking wankers.
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Re: Council car parks - fines

Post by WD40 @ Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:01 pm

Pigeon wrote:'Course, what would be really great would be if councils stopped viewing anyone who has a car as a rich cnut who can legitimately be used as a cash cow.


Local government just following national government's example.

Pigeon wrote:Drive into town, because how else are you going to get there?


I think the answer is supposedly "public transport"...

;)
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Re: Council car parks - fines

Post by Towie @ Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:11 am

Brighton is full of "traps" and parking Nazis to spring them. One particular road in the centre of the city near the old fruit market is a case in point. On one side of the road, the bays are for parallel parking and there are many ticket machines. On the other, one parks under a bit of a smelly canopy, at right angles to the kerb. There are ticket machines on that side too, but uman nature being what it is, we head for the "bright" side of the road to buy a ticket. Read the machine and it states that payment is not necessary after 6pm.
However, on the other side of the road, payment is necessary up to 20:00. I only got caught out once. Dozens of people are caught out every weekend. I even asked the council why they do not put up a big sign pointing out the discrepancies. They were not interested. cnuts. And to make matters worse, the place is descended upon every night by the parking jackals at about 7 every night. It's a cash ow for them. Also cnuts.
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Re: Council car parks - fines

Post by Tokyo Sexwale @ Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:33 am

If you don't display a ticket and come back to your car to find a fine on it, what's to stop you asking for a used ticket from someone else in the carpark and saying it had slipped? Nothing at all, hence the display rules I guess.
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Re: Council car parks - fines

Post by Rod Rammage @ Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:38 am

There was a recent case about this. I'll see if I can find it.

It's a contract between you and the council. They provide the parking, you pay. If you don't pay then they are entitled to what they lost - i.e. parking at the rate at which they charge.

No fines.

Then again, that might apply just to private land. I'll have to check.

Wait there.
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Re: Council car parks - fines

Post by Rod Rammage @ Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:45 am

Can't find it.

Anyway I have a vague feeling that if it's a private carpark (i.e. not council owned), tell the to fcuk themselves, if it's a council owned carpark, you're screwed.

Also...


http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/parking-ticket-appeals
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Re: Council car parks - fines

Post by DI Burnside @ Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:41 am

Second Marine wrote:If you don't display a ticket and come back to your car to find a fine on it, what's to stop you asking for a used ticket from someone else in the carpark and saying it had slipped? Nothing at all, hence the display rules I guess.


Of course, but that would be an accusation of dishonesty on my part, which is a whole different ball game.
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Re: Council car parks - fines

Post by DI Burnside @ Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:48 am

Rod Rammage wrote:There was a recent case about this. I'll see if I can find it.

It's a contract between you and the council. They provide the parking, you pay. If you don't pay then they are entitled to what they lost - i.e. parking at the rate at which they charge.

No fines.

Then again, that might apply just to private land. I'll have to check.

Wait there.


I found something about that last night, but it doesn't apply as it was council land.

Rod Rammage wrote:Can't find it.

Anyway I have a vague feeling that if it's a private carpark (i.e. not council owned), tell the to fcuk themselves, if it's a council owned carpark, you're screwed.

Also...


http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/parking-ticket-appeals


As I've not paid the initial fine I have been sent a "Notice to Owner" saying I've got 28 days to pay (now £50) or I can appeal to the council, which is what I'm doing. If the council reject it ten the next step is to do what' outlind on that link.

I'm just running through process really as, if all the appeals get rejected, I'll just tell them to fcuk off.
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Re: Council car parks - fines

Post by Rod Rammage @ Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:20 am

I got 2 fines last year. One in a private carpark, which I binned, and never heard about afterwards, and one from the council.

I challenged the council one. It was dead easy. I just asked them for a photograph of my car breaching whatever it was I'd breached.

Anyway, they sent me a picture, "clearly showing the ticket" on my car - it didn't - but then they conceded that the ticket was put on at 5.58pm or something, so they let me off.

I would never pay a fine without challenging it.

The fcukers.
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Re: Council car parks - fines

Post by Tumescent Acorn @ Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:34 am

The council is being a cnut here.

People parking have a clear requirement to pay for it in the form of a ticket, and to display that ticket.
You did the former but not the latter.
However, you have proof that you did buy a ticket, i.e. you have the ticket.

So the council issuing you with a fine is perfectly correct, but once provided with evidence that you did in fact paid for parking, they should rescind the fine.

Not doing so is pure cnut. And being money grabbing sh1tes.

I'm pretty sure if it came to a civil case they would be fooked in your case
[I say so on the basis of many years of no training in legal issues whatsoever]
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Re: Council car parks - fines

Post by Strawman @ Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:37 pm

Parking fines repel people from visiting a place, there is a new initiative in a part of Dublin to stick tickets to cars that have overstayed.

Image

(they stick the ticket to the window in this little bag).
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Re: Council car parks - fines

Post by Towie @ Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:05 am

That is brilliant. 50c well invested I would have thought.
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Re: Council car parks - fines

Post by Palin4President @ Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:13 am

Has anyone ever tried a better solution than a ticket. Like an electronic system?
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Re: Council car parks - fines

Post by Towie @ Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:47 am

Palin4President wrote:Has anyone ever tried a better solution than a ticket. Like an electronic system?


Yes. Never used one myself, but there are a few places where you can pay by phone. I assume that you give them a reg number and payment.
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Re: Council car parks - fines

Post by Tokyo Sexwale @ Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:40 am

Strawman wrote:Parking fines repel people from visiting a place, there is a new initiative in a part of Dublin to stick tickets to cars that have overstayed.

Image

(they stick the ticket to the window in this little bag).


Truly excellent.

My station carpark used to do a something along the lines of 'You've not paid for a ticket today but we understand you were probably in a hurry so won't do anything. Please don't do it again' and used to guilt me into buying a ticket.
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Council car parks - fines

Post by DI Burnside @ Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:43 pm

A letter from the council was waiting for me tonight, they have decided to let me off. It's a bit patronising in that it says I was in breach of the rules and that if I do it again then I might not get let off, but no fine for me :)

It pays to say no. Sometimes.
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Re: Council car parks - fines

Post by Strawman @ Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:49 pm

crikey wrote:t's a bit patronising in that it says I was in breach of the rules and that if I do it again then I might not get let off, but no fine for me :)


Probably a legal thing, so you're not setting a precedent that others may follow, in the same way that companies make out of court settlements for things and at the same time release a statement saying they are admitting no liabilities.

crikey wrote:It pays to say no. Sometimes.

Good for you.
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