Water leaks

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Water leaks

Post by stuart @ Fri May 26, 2017 12:51 pm

So my neighbour below me has water coming into his flat near the one of the balcony panes.

They think it's coming from my flat someplace but aren't sure.

They don't know where it can be coming from though, my 2 bathrooms are new, the kitchen is new and the boiler all looks ok.

They want to start ripping my flat up and I'd have to go live in a hotel for 6 to 8 weeks until they find the leak (if it is coming from my flat.)

My issues, my flat cost me around £40k to redecorate. It would have to go back to the exact standard it was in. Is this a reasonable request?

If I have to live in a hotel for 2 months or so, I would have to be put up in a top hotel. I'm not going to live in a Premier Inn for 2 months. Is this a reasonable request?

They want to start lifting my floor, this means a new kitchen as they would have to remove the kitchen Island. If I can't get the company that fitted my kitchen to just fit a replacement island, I would need a kitchen (as a new Island wouldn't match..) Is this a reasonable request?

They want the floor to be lifted (it was expensive, to me, in the thousands) I want it to be lifted by the guy that laid it and did all the work in my flat (he's a family friend and does excellent work). They would have to work around this schedule. Is this a reasonable request.

They just seem to be guessing where the water is coming in, I believe there is technology that lets you scan a floor and see if their is water underneath it. They said they don't use that, they just rip the floor up and check. I wouldn't want them ripping any floor up until they had used this technology and were fairly certain there is water under there. Is this a reasonable request?

I don't want to make an insurance claim as it's communal insurance for the whole building and my excess may be £10k.

If they do destroy my flat looking for this leak and it turns out it isn't in my flat at all, do I have grounds for some serious compensation?

I have had water coming into my flat from exactly the same place as they are, and it was caused by the flat above me. Above me is the penthouse, the penthouse balconies go further back and cause water to go down into the flats below. I think the water is coming from the penthouse balcony and running down into my flat and the flat below. She isn't keen on letting people into her flat though as I think she knows they like to just destroy your flat to find the leak.
Last edited by stuart on Fri May 26, 2017 12:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Water leaks

Post by ttwiggy @ Fri May 26, 2017 12:56 pm

Can't answer many of your queries but I believe that as water damage can be severe 'they' are allowed to rip things up if that is the most expedient solution.
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Re: Water leaks

Post by Disastrous @ Fri May 26, 2017 12:58 pm

I can speak from personal experience of flat living and having the same done here...

First, it's a fcuking nightmare! Don't let them do it. Their insurer won't give a fcuk about your place and your reinstatement won't be done right. Then they'll fcuk off and wash their hands of it.

I would be firm that you will accept responsibility for the leak but that you will undertake to trace and resolve using your insurer and your trades. Then you have a chance of getting stuff done right.

I was young and naive when this happened to me and I'd just got a new bathroom suite done and they insisted on smashing up all the tiles and ripping the floor up. They absolutely bodged the reinstatement, made a lousy job of it and then denied it all when it leaked again. I had to get an ombudsman and a lawyer involved and I still didn't really win.The entire floor isn't needed to access a pipe run and a decent plumber should be able to access all your pipework with minimal floor damage.

Phone your insurer, tell them you have a leak and then get on the phone to some folk you trust. The other way will just mean loads of broken promises and grief.

Sympathies btw. What a shitter. Owning property is a right ball ache.
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Re: Water leaks

Post by thekungfury @ Fri May 26, 2017 1:00 pm

£10k excess, what?
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Re: Water leaks

Post by stuart @ Fri May 26, 2017 1:03 pm

thekungfury wrote:£10k excess, what?


We have had issues with buildings insurance for a while.

As of today, right now, my excess is £500.

But as of Thursday we are changing insurance to a new insurer. This new insurer is giving the tenants a £60k grant to install this technology called waterguard. This detects if water is running for more than 15 minutes in your flat and it cuts your water off. Once you have that fitted to your flat, your excess is £10k. Once that is fitted it is £500. Once a certain % of flats in the building have it everyones excess is £500.

BUT, if I need to make a claim next week, after Thursday, then obviously 1) I don't have waterguard and 2) this is a claim before waterguard install was even going to be kicking off. So I might be having to pay the new £10k excess.

My insurance premium each year is around £1800 and £500 excess. When the residents committee goes to this new company, it will come down to about £900 a year.
Last edited by stuart on Fri May 26, 2017 1:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Water leaks

Post by Il Duce @ Fri May 26, 2017 1:10 pm

stuart wrote:
thekungfury wrote:£10k excess, what?


We have had issues with buildings insurance for a while.

As of today, right now, my excess is £500.

But as of Thursday we are changing insurance to a new insurer. This new insurer is giving the tenants a £60k grant to install this technology called waterguard. This detects if water is running for more than 15 minutes in your flat and it cuts your water off. Once you have that fitted to your flat, your excess is £10k. Once that is fitted it is £500. Once a certain % of flats in the building have it everyones excess is £500.

BUT, if I need to make a claim next week, after Thursday, then obviously 1) I don't have waterguard and 2) this is a claim before waterguard install was even going to be kicking off. So I might be having to pay the new £10k excess.

My insurance premium each year is around £1800 and £500 excess. When the residents committee goes to this new company, it will come down to about £900 a year.


I have £1M gbp cover on my house and it cost less than £150 last year. WTF? is your flat made of? gold and diamonds?
They're taking the fvcking piss!
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Re: Water leaks

Post by Greg66 @ Fri May 26, 2017 2:15 pm

Il Duce wrote:
stuart wrote:
thekungfury wrote:£10k excess, what?


We have had issues with buildings insurance for a while.

As of today, right now, my excess is £500.

But as of Thursday we are changing insurance to a new insurer. This new insurer is giving the tenants a £60k grant to install this technology called waterguard. This detects if water is running for more than 15 minutes in your flat and it cuts your water off. Once you have that fitted to your flat, your excess is £10k. Once that is fitted it is £500. Once a certain % of flats in the building have it everyones excess is £500.

BUT, if I need to make a claim next week, after Thursday, then obviously 1) I don't have waterguard and 2) this is a claim before waterguard install was even going to be kicking off. So I might be having to pay the new £10k excess.

My insurance premium each year is around £1800 and £500 excess. When the residents committee goes to this new company, it will come down to about £900 a year.


I have £1M gbp cover on my house and it cost less than £150 last year. WTF? is your flat made of? gold and diamonds?
They're taking the fvcking piss!


Probably made of bricks. Unlike "houses" in Wales which as we all know are made of mud and sheep excrement.

Stuart: why can't they start pulling down their ceilings?
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Re: Water leaks

Post by Disastrous @ Fri May 26, 2017 2:17 pm

Greg66 wrote:
Il Duce wrote:
stuart wrote:
thekungfury wrote:£10k excess, what?


We have had issues with buildings insurance for a while.

As of today, right now, my excess is £500.

But as of Thursday we are changing insurance to a new insurer. This new insurer is giving the tenants a £60k grant to install this technology called waterguard. This detects if water is running for more than 15 minutes in your flat and it cuts your water off. Once you have that fitted to your flat, your excess is £10k. Once that is fitted it is £500. Once a certain % of flats in the building have it everyones excess is £500.

BUT, if I need to make a claim next week, after Thursday, then obviously 1) I don't have waterguard and 2) this is a claim before waterguard install was even going to be kicking off. So I might be having to pay the new £10k excess.

My insurance premium each year is around £1800 and £500 excess. When the residents committee goes to this new company, it will come down to about £900 a year.


I have £1M gbp cover on my house and it cost less than £150 last year. WTF? is your flat made of? gold and diamonds?
They're taking the fvcking piss!


Probably made of bricks. Unlike "houses" in Wales which as we all know are made of mud and sheep excrement.

Stuart: why can't they start pulling down their ceilings?


Their insurers will know that will be more ball ache for them so easier to fcuk up the guy upstairs.
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Re: Water leaks

Post by stuart @ Fri May 26, 2017 2:19 pm

hahaha, it's concrete floor between the flats anyway, so I'm struggling to see how water gets from my floor to theirs.

But the guys says the concrete sags in the middle and creates an area where water, if there is a leak, accumulates, then once it fills this area up, it runs to the edge and runs into the flat below via the exterior wall, sounds like nonsense to me.
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Re: Water leaks

Post by Strawman @ Fri May 26, 2017 2:26 pm

Can you do some sort of flow test for your water system, so with everything turned off a leak would show as water flowing into the flat, or something?
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Re: Water leaks

Post by stuart @ Fri May 26, 2017 2:28 pm

Strawman wrote:Can you do some sort of flow test for your water system, so with everything turned off a leak would show as water flowing into the flat, or something?


My water is currently turned off, and they are going to see if that stops the water coming into the guys flat below.

They say though, that even if they turn my water off and water keeps coming into his flat, that doesn't mean that it's not my flat it's coming from.

They can't be sure till they destroy the place apparently.

I've found this: water leak detection and mentioned to them that technology exists to find leaks rather than guess and rip stuff up. But they don't use that, I was told.

They prefer the caveman approach.

Another woman in this complex had a leak that was coming from 4 flats above her. They destroyed 3 flats above her that had nothing to do with the leak. They just apparently ripped the flat up directly above her, wasn't them then carried on upwards till they found the culprit. Now, my issue is there is only 1 flat above me...
Last edited by stuart on Fri May 26, 2017 2:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Water leaks

Post by ttwiggy @ Fri May 26, 2017 2:33 pm

Il Duce wrote:I have £1M gbp cover on my house and it cost less than £150 last year. WTF? is your flat made of? gold and diamonds?
They're taking the fvcking piss!


Much cheaper to insure a house than a flat as generally you won't be damaging other people's property if yours leaks/burns down/becomes sentient, joins a cult and rapes people.
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Re: Water leaks

Post by Disastrous @ Fri May 26, 2017 2:35 pm

stuart wrote:
Strawman wrote:Can you do some sort of flow test for your water system, so with everything turned off a leak would show as water flowing into the flat, or something?


My water is currently turned off, and they are going to see if that stops the water coming into the guys flat below.

They say though, that even if they turn my water off and water keeps coming into his flat, that doesn't mean that it's not my flat it's coming from.

They can't be sure till they destroy the place apparently.

I've found this: water leak detection and mentioned to them that technology exists to find leaks rather than guess and rip stuff up. But they don't use that, I was told.

They prefer the caveman approach.

Another woman in this complex had a leak that was coming from 4 flats above her. They destroyed 3 flats above her that had nothing to do with the leak. They just apparently ripped the flat up directly above her, wasn't them then carried on upwards till they found the culprit. Now, my issue is there is only 1 flat above me...


Seriously, tell them no and get onto your own insurer.
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Re: Water leaks

Post by Tokyo Sexwale @ Fri May 26, 2017 2:37 pm

That sounds well shit Stuart. No advice but feel for you.

Also, £40k on decorating??? Wtf?
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Re: Water leaks

Post by stuart @ Fri May 26, 2017 2:38 pm

Disastrous wrote:
stuart wrote:
Strawman wrote:Can you do some sort of flow test for your water system, so with everything turned off a leak would show as water flowing into the flat, or something?


My water is currently turned off, and they are going to see if that stops the water coming into the guys flat below.

They say though, that even if they turn my water off and water keeps coming into his flat, that doesn't mean that it's not my flat it's coming from.

They can't be sure till they destroy the place apparently.

I've found this: water leak detection and mentioned to them that technology exists to find leaks rather than guess and rip stuff up. But they don't use that, I was told.

They prefer the caveman approach.

Another woman in this complex had a leak that was coming from 4 flats above her. They destroyed 3 flats above her that had nothing to do with the leak. They just apparently ripped the flat up directly above her, wasn't them then carried on upwards till they found the culprit. Now, my issue is there is only 1 flat above me...


Seriously, tell them no and get onto your own insurer.


I don't have my own insurer :( My building insurance is via the communal charges for the building.

All I have is my own contents insurance.

I don't call them do I ?
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Re: Water leaks

Post by stuart @ Fri May 26, 2017 2:43 pm

Tokyo Sexwale wrote:That sounds well shit Stuart. No advice but feel for you.

Also, £40k on decorating??? Wtf?


I had to start from scratch with the flat, I needed

New floor in living room (£2.5k - £3k)
New Kitchen (£20k)
New bathrooms x 2 (£13k)
New fitted wardrobes in bedroom (£2.5k)
Side tables for bedroom to match those fitted wardrobes made (£too much)
Painting (OMG so much paint!)
Wallpaper
Carpets in both bedrooms replaced (£600)
Blinds (£800)
Skirting in all rooms,
All interior doors replaced
Paying someone to paint ceilings.
All lights and light fitting replaced.
All light switches and sockets replaced.
Coving in some rooms.
Curtains

And that's before:
New sofa,
New dining table (£1.5k).
Pictures for walls.
Rug
Side tables
Dining tables
Desks,
Lamps,
Bookshelves,
Chairs
Stools
New unit thing that TV sits on (something ludicrous like £1.5k)

etc. It was just fcuking endless, I can't put into words how bad a state the flat was in when I bought it. It was an utter dump.
Last edited by stuart on Fri May 26, 2017 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Water leaks

Post by Disastrous @ Fri May 26, 2017 2:44 pm

stuart wrote:
Disastrous wrote:
stuart wrote:
Strawman wrote:Can you do some sort of flow test for your water system, so with everything turned off a leak would show as water flowing into the flat, or something?


My water is currently turned off, and they are going to see if that stops the water coming into the guys flat below.

They say though, that even if they turn my water off and water keeps coming into his flat, that doesn't mean that it's not my flat it's coming from.

They can't be sure till they destroy the place apparently.

I've found this: water leak detection and mentioned to them that technology exists to find leaks rather than guess and rip stuff up. But they don't use that, I was told.

They prefer the caveman approach.

Another woman in this complex had a leak that was coming from 4 flats above her. They destroyed 3 flats above her that had nothing to do with the leak. They just apparently ripped the flat up directly above her, wasn't them then carried on upwards till they found the culprit. Now, my issue is there is only 1 flat above me...


Seriously, tell them no and get onto your own insurer.


I don't have my own insurer :( My building insurance is via the communal charges for the building.

All I have is my own contents insurance.

I don't call them do I ?


Depends on the policy but we have communal insurance for communal things. I've got my own home and contents for when someone breaks in and smashes the place. Have you not got that?

If not, and EVERYTHING is covered by common charges, then you can still make a separate claim on your building policy surely? Say you dispute the methodology being used by the contractor. The insurer won't have a fcuking clue.

The other flat will have called the insurer who will have put a contractor onto it and that's all they'll know. The contractor is probably a lazy cnut and just doing the job in a way that generates him most work. At any rate, in a worst case scenario and you have nothing, I'd pay the water detection people out my own pocket before I got my flat torn up.

Also, yours is relatively new build right? Therefore the plumbing will not be a mystery. Get the factor/developer to give you the plans so you can find out where the pipes run.
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Re: Water leaks

Post by stuart @ Fri May 26, 2017 2:49 pm

Disastrous wrote:Also, yours is relatively new build right? Therefore the plumbing will not be a mystery. Get the factor/developer to give you the plans so you can find out where the pipes run.


Oh good idea!

I mean today, they wanted to start taking my main bathroom apart and start taking tiles off etc, with absolutely no idea that the cause is my main bathroom. They just wanted to start taking it apart to see if it maybe turned out to be the cause. FFS.
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Re: Water leaks

Post by Disastrous @ Fri May 26, 2017 2:52 pm

stuart wrote:
Disastrous wrote:Also, yours is relatively new build right? Therefore the plumbing will not be a mystery. Get the factor/developer to give you the plans so you can find out where the pipes run.


Oh good idea!

I mean today, they wanted to start taking my main bathroom apart and start taking tiles off etc, with absolutely no idea that the cause is my main bathroom. They just wanted to start taking it apart to see if it maybe turned out to be the cause. FFS.



Get them to fcuk!

That's just so they can bill the insurer for the slapdash reinstatement.

The guy I hired eventually to fix the mess in my bathroom said "it's never the same when you just put stuff back. You need to start again" and it's been completely true IME.
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Re: Water leaks

Post by stuart @ Fri May 26, 2017 2:55 pm

Disastrous wrote:
stuart wrote:
Disastrous wrote:Also, yours is relatively new build right? Therefore the plumbing will not be a mystery. Get the factor/developer to give you the plans so you can find out where the pipes run.


Oh good idea!

I mean today, they wanted to start taking my main bathroom apart and start taking tiles off etc, with absolutely no idea that the cause is my main bathroom. They just wanted to start taking it apart to see if it maybe turned out to be the cause. FFS.



Get them to fcuk!

That's just so they can bill the insurer for the slapdash reinstatement.

The guy I hired eventually to fix the mess in my bathroom said "it's never the same when you just put stuff back. You need to start again" and it's been completely true IME.


I go to the owners committee meetings and apparently the average cost of an insurance claim (per flat) to cover the damage caused by trying to find and fix water escape in the complex is £60k.
Last edited by stuart on Fri May 26, 2017 2:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Water leaks

Post by Tokyo Sexwale @ Fri May 26, 2017 2:57 pm

stuart wrote:
Tokyo Sexwale wrote:That sounds well shit Stuart. No advice but feel for you.

Also, £40k on decorating??? Wtf?


I had to start from scratch with the flat, I needed

New floor in living room (£2.5k - £3k)
New Kitchen (£20k)
New bathrooms x 2 (£13k)
New fitted wardrobes in bedroom (£2.5k)
Side tables for bedroom to match those fitted wardrobes made (£too much)
Painting (OMG so much paint!)
Wallpaper
Carpets in both bedrooms replaced (£600)
Blinds (£800)
Skirting in all rooms,
All interior doors replaced
Paying someone to paint ceilings.
All lights and light fitting replaced.
All light switches and sockets replaced.
Coving in some rooms.
Curtains

And that's before:
New sofa,
New dining table (£1.5k).
Pictures for walls.
Rug
Side tables
Dining tables
Desks,
Lamps,
Bookshelves,
Chairs
Stools
New unit thing that TV sits on (something ludicrous like £1.5k)

etc. It was just fcuking endless, I can't put into words how bad a state the flat was in when I bought it. It was an utter dump.


Yeah when you start including kitchens, bathrooms and furniture then 'decorating' gets a bit pricey I guess. :hehe:
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Re: Water leaks

Post by Disastrous @ Fri May 26, 2017 2:57 pm

stuart wrote:
Disastrous wrote:
stuart wrote:
Disastrous wrote:Also, yours is relatively new build right? Therefore the plumbing will not be a mystery. Get the factor/developer to give you the plans so you can find out where the pipes run.


Oh good idea!

I mean today, they wanted to start taking my main bathroom apart and start taking tiles off etc, with absolutely no idea that the cause is my main bathroom. They just wanted to start taking it apart to see if it maybe turned out to be the cause. FFS.



Get them to fcuk!

That's just so they can bill the insurer for the slapdash reinstatement.

The guy I hired eventually to fix the mess in my bathroom said "it's never the same when you just put stuff back. You need to start again" and it's been completely true IME.


I go to the owners committee meetings and apparently the average cost of an insurance claim (per flat) to cover the damage caused by trying to find and fix water escape in the complex is £60k.


:rofl:

Ffs! Clowns.
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Re: Water leaks

Post by stuart @ Fri May 26, 2017 2:58 pm

Tokyo Sexwale wrote:
stuart wrote:
Tokyo Sexwale wrote:That sounds well shit Stuart. No advice but feel for you.

Also, £40k on decorating??? Wtf?


I had to start from scratch with the flat, I needed

New floor in living room (£2.5k - £3k)
New Kitchen (£20k)
New bathrooms x 2 (£13k)
New fitted wardrobes in bedroom (£2.5k)
Side tables for bedroom to match those fitted wardrobes made (£too much)
Painting (OMG so much paint!)
Wallpaper
Carpets in both bedrooms replaced (£600)
Blinds (£800)
Skirting in all rooms,
All interior doors replaced
Paying someone to paint ceilings.
All lights and light fitting replaced.
All light switches and sockets replaced.
Coving in some rooms.
Curtains

And that's before:
New sofa,
New dining table (£1.5k).
Pictures for walls.
Rug
Side tables
Dining tables
Desks,
Lamps,
Bookshelves,
Chairs
Stools
New unit thing that TV sits on (something ludicrous like £1.5k)

etc. It was just fcuking endless, I can't put into words how bad a state the flat was in when I bought it. It was an utter dump.


Yeah when you start including kitchens, bathrooms and furniture then 'decorating' gets a bit pricey I guess. :hehe:


OK, decorating was a bad term. Making my flat into a liveable space for a human being.
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Re: Water leaks

Post by Dirk @ Fri May 26, 2017 3:00 pm

So the possibilities
1) The leak is coming from your pipes - so it should stop when your stopcock is off
2) The leak is coming from the pipes in the flat above - so it should stop when their stopcock is off
3) Its coming from pipes in the flat that has the problem - so it should stop when their stopcock is off

So IMO firstly ask for written confirmation that they have eliminated all of those. Insist on it in writing because they can't fob you off with lies because you can sue their arse if it turns out they really have lied

4) If none of those, then it is coming from outside. From what you say then, it is more likely that it is coming from the flat above whose balcony comes back further or the flat below. So insist they have confirmed it is neither of those first - again in writing

5) if none of those, then there is no point digging up your floor, because water doesn't magic into the floor, it would have to be coming from the windows or something. So they should be looking there.

So the only reason to dig up your floor is if it does stop when your stopcock is off, and not when anyone else's does. Then you're probably fcuked
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Re: Water leaks

Post by Deuteronomy @ Fri May 26, 2017 3:06 pm

Why not get them to take their ceiling down where the leak is?

If someone has suggested this already, then you're awesome too.

>does finger pistol<
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Re: Water leaks

Post by Tokyo Sexwale @ Fri May 26, 2017 3:34 pm

Inject a food dye in one of your rads?
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Re: Water leaks

Post by Greg66 @ Fri May 26, 2017 3:56 pm

Deuteronomy wrote:Why not get them to take their ceiling down where the leak is?

If someone has suggested this already, then you're awesome too.

>does finger pistol<


Some (me) has. And yes, I know.

Except Stuart then added some new facts. The stories in his building are separated by concrete slabs.
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Re: Water leaks

Post by Deuteronomy @ Fri May 26, 2017 4:02 pm

Greg66 wrote:
Deuteronomy wrote:Why not get them to take their ceiling down where the leak is?

If someone has suggested this already, then you're awesome too.

>does finger pistol<


Some (me) has. And yes, I know.

Except Stuart then added some new facts. The stories in his building are separated by concrete slabs.


Ugggh! He's such a ninny!
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Re: Water leaks

Post by thekungfury @ Fri May 26, 2017 4:20 pm

Greg66 wrote:. The stories in his building.

Ah, the tales they could tell.
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thekungfury
 
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Re: Water leaks

Post by Monty @ Fri May 26, 2017 4:58 pm

This all probably seems rather basic, but I'll say it anyway...

I assume that the stop-cock test doesn't shed any light? Although it would be lucky if just turning the stop-cock off would immediately stop the run of water.
I'm also assuming heavy or prolonged rain has been ruled out? Water can take a while to reach the point where it can escape, especially if it has to run along near flat surfaces,cracks & go round corners...but it will eventually find it's way out.

Did anyone ever find out where the water was coming from in the penthouse above you? It's not entirely impossible that if it is your flat that has the leak, then it could be from a similar weakness in the plumbing if the layout is roughly the same. Or it could be the failure of one similar unit or joint in the same place as yours is located?

[e] Oh, and do what Dis suggests!
Last edited by Monty on Fri May 26, 2017 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Monty
 
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